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Weapons Brainstorming

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:50 pm 
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I thought you couldn't silence autoguns, or are you using a house rule there?


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:43 am 
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This was a house-rule I instituted to increase the autogun's attractiveness compared to the lasgun. I did not want to change any base rules for either weapon so I just made the autogun more versatile. That seemed to do the trick.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:49 am 
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hmmm... this is my second post and I don't want to stomp on toes, but I'd like to touch the low-tech side of things. I think that the outlaws could use some more flavor weapons,

I run ratskins and I'd love to see the musket/hand-bow rules expanded upon. and I dream of an all silent weapon mob of skins terrorizing the hive :twisted:

the move or fire limit for both is in character, but what reason could there be to not use actual crossbows or bows, not to mention thrown weapons? and why not a brace of pistols (or sawed off shot-guns)

BOW (12pts)
my idea for bows would be 0-10 11-18 str as user no mods to hit at either range, and (+1) to armor rolls so everyone gets a 6+ against a bow. ammo should be 3+ as they are easy to make but do get broken

CROSSBOW (15pts)
cross bow would be the same as handbow except with 0-12 12-22

i like the idea of thrown weapons as explained earlier. they wouldn't break any systems as they rely on BS unmodified... at least the math looks restrictive.... and being silent would help in only two scenerios. I kept the cost low because of the reduced range and the fact that they would be two handed weapons.

and how about rules for dropping rocks on people...........

DROPPED ROCK
must be within 2" horizontally of a target on a lower level
str = model + 1 per 3" fallen +1 to hit but (-1 to hit per 3" of fall)
silent

i think this would be great,


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:16 pm 
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i really like that rock drop idea, very cool.
tho it would have a very limited usefulness so id make it really cheap, if not free.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:31 am 
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OK, sorry to chime in randomly here but I've implemented the following weapon upgrade in the past and thought it'd be best posted here.

Improved Rifling: 15 Creds (Rare - Available if Hotshot Pack is rolled up)

Improves Long Range of the Autogun to 32".

This basically puts it back to the stats it had in Rogue Trader. It gave Marines and Guard a long range waepon to back up the shorter ranged Bolters and Lasguns. I never had any trouble with this last time I used it in a campaign. The cost is reasonable and the upgrade doesn't come up too often.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:25 pm 
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Sounds good. I liked the old autogun . :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:27 am 
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Spears were mentioned earlier, and after seeing the other models in that dueling pistol pic it occured to me that bayonets whould be added. I have some rules for these:

Muzzle Blade
5 credits
An autogun, lasgun, musket, needle rifle, or shotgun fitted with a muzzle blade may use the gun in close combat as though it were a spear. It may not be thrown.

Spear
Ratskins: 10 credits
Scavvies: 6 credits
Close Combat: because of its length a fighter using a spear suffers no penalty for attacking a higher up enemy. He also adds +1 to his WS when in close combat. If the opposing fighter is using a spear, no bonuses are given.
Str: As User. Dam: 1. Save: 0. Ammo: N/A

Throwing: A spear may be thrown the same range as a grenade but at -1 as they are unweildly. A thrown spear will not be recovered until the end of the battle.
Range: 2x Strength. Str: 3. Dam: 1. Save: -1. Ammo: Auto.


Other Ideas

Incendiary Bomb
20 credits
Nasty ball filled with phosphorus, either homemade or manufactured.
Range: User S+2. Str: 4. Dam: 1. Save:-2. Ammo: Auto.

Flintlock Pistol
Any Ratskins or Scummers: 6 credits
Primitive pistol made from wood and scrap metal.
Short Rng: 0-8. Long Rng: 9-16. To Hit Lng: -1. Str: 3. Dam: 1. Ammo: 6+.

Close Combat: Due to its weight and poor reload times the pistol cannot be used in close combat.



Hunting Bow
Ratskins: 10 Credits
Silent Weapon.
Shrt Rng: 0-8. Lng Rng: 9-18. To Hit Lng: -1. Str 4. Dam: 1. Save +1. Ammo 6+.
Armour: Any target wearing armour that is hit by a hunting bow gains an extra +1 to his saving throw.



Just some ideas


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:35 am 
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I'd make the Flintlock a move or fire weapon instead. Much like the Musket.
Its very time consuming to reload also.


Here's a few ideas I may throw in.


Sentry Bot: 150 creds

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
0 4 - 4 2 4 0 - 5+

Weapons: Dual-linked Autoguns.

Special:
---------

Movement: Sentry Bots move in random patrols, travelling 2D6 in any direction dictated by the scatter dice.
Sentry Bots 'hover' above the ground and may ignore Difficult terrain. They may also hover upwards to reach higher levels if they encounter walls of multi-storey buildings.

Searchlight: The Sentry Bot carries a Searchlight with a 90 degree arc of visibility from the front. The proximity of which is double the Bot's Initiative rating (8") And any model caught within that beam, hidden or no, will raise the alarm. If playing on any mission that demands the use of Screamers/Stummers.
If a Sentry Bot has been shot at unprovoked, it will also raise the alarm and travel 3D6 towards the source of the gunshot to engage the intruder.


Repair: Sentry Bots while mechanical and lightly armoured can become damaged or unusable during use.
If the Bot's Wounds have been reduced to 0, it is OOA for the match and will be considered destroyed and useless unless there is a Gang member with the Armourer Techno skill.
A Repair can only be made after the battle a Sentry Bot has been damaged in.

Psychology: The Bot is an emotionless machine and does not feel the effects of Fear, Terror, Panic, Hatred or Frenzy.

Sentry: Taking a bot with a gang on long distance ventures can be costly, since the bot will either need refuelling/rearming and maintenance through the trip from tools that are tucked away at the Gang's hideyholes.
Therefore Sentry Bots may only be used in battles where a territory is under threat.





Whitesnake Cocktail: 10+1D6 (You may choose how to use this once it has been purchased from the Outlaw Trading post, but you may not choose both. Bottle of Whitesnake is enough for one Whitesnake Cocktail.

Some Gangers have been known to take bottles of this highly alcoholic beverage and turn it into a jury rigged fire bomb.
While not particularly effective and sometimes even dangerous to handle, it does serve as a cheap deterrent against enemies.

Effect: See Flamer damage details.
One use only.
Blast marker remains in area of hit for D3 turns as the fire continues to burn itself out.
Smoke bombs or Choke Grenades will snuff out any remaining flames.
Thrown Weapon.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:56 am 
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Hey all, These are some really great ideas to expand the Necro universe, but I must argue a point with one of the last entries.

Jimini wrote:
Flintlock Pistol
Any Ratskins or Scummers: 6 credits
Primitive pistol made from wood and scrap metal.
Short Rng: 0-8. Long Rng: 9-16. To Hit Lng: -1. Str: 3. Dam: 1. Ammo: 6+.

Close Combat: Due to its weight and poor reload times the pistol cannot be used in close combat.



Admittedly a flintlock weapon of any type can't be reloaded quickly, but to completely preclude it's use in CC goes completely against the entire point of a flintlock pistol! These guns were extremely short-range pistols intended for CC fighting.

Now, the man using such a pistol could only count on a single shot before their ballistic potential was gone, the stats for the gun reflect that pretty well. However, the gun could (and typically would) then be flipped around, gripped by the barrel, and used as a club in the following melee. Weight is an asset in this case! Limiting the use of the flintlock as a pistol in CC is all well and good, but maybe the following revision might help to embody the true purpose of the flintlock:

Flintlock Pistol
Any Ratskins or Scummers: 12 credits - Reflects Improvised Bludgeon rule below.
Primitive pistol made from wood and scrap metal.
Short Rng: 0-8. Long Rng: 9-16. To Hit Lng: -1. Str: 3. Dam: 1. Ammo: 6+.

Special Rules: Take the Butt of Yer Gun an' Smash their Nose In!, Wait Until the Opportune Moment, Close Quarters.

Take the Butt of Yer Gun an' Smash their Nose In!: If an Ammo Roll is failed, treat the flintlock pistol as a club for the remainder of the battle. It may be used as normal in the next scenario.

Wait Until the Opportune Moment: Even those who have trained extensively with flintlock weapons can only manage 2-3 shots per minute due to the extensive reloading process. To represent this, the flintlock pistol counts as a move or fire weapon.

Close Quarters: Due to the considerable time needed to reload this weapon, if the pistol has not been fired during the normal shooting phase, overwatch, etc. it may be fired only once during HtH combat. Once this shot has been made (or if the pistol was fired during the shooting phase, overwatch, etc.) the pistol cannot be fired again and counts as a club for the remainder of HtH combat. If the model with the flintlock wins the HtH combat, he must forego his consolidation movement to ensure his pistol will be reloaded and ready to fire in his next shooting phase.


I know these rules are more complicated and I don't mean to step on any toes, but flintlock pistols are very much a CC weapon and IMO this profile fits the weapon more accurately.

I really like the idea of seeing this weapon in the underhive - very much a cool improvised weapon - could also provide an opportunity for a modified Shootout scenario - like an honour duel!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:09 am 
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You might consider a look at the Mordheim rules for pistols. Basically, they fire only every other round, (it takes a turn to load them) and can only be used in the first round of close combat. I do like the idea of being able to club your opponent with it after the first round, but a move-or-fire weapon with a 16" range and strength 3 just doesn't appeal to me. At all. Even for 6 credits.

However, since a club will set you back 10 credits, this pistol ought to be more like 14-16 credits.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:36 am 
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for balance, it would be better to say the pistol could be used as a knife.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:43 am 
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Adoni-Zedek wrote:
However, since a club will set you back 10 credits, this pistol ought to be more like 14-16 credits.


I increased the cost for the "combi-weapon" status of the pistol in the new profile - maybe not enough? I think its fair, considering the balance of limtations and benefits:
Weagmacht wrote:
Flintlock Pistol
Any Ratskins or Scummers: 12 credits - Reflects Improvised Bludgeon rule below.


I have never had a chance to look at the Mordheim rules, but maybe it would be worth tracking them down and porting the profiles for some of the weapons to Necro and then tweaking them accordingly.

The only issue I would have with the changes proposed there is the reloading time... only being allowed one shot every two turns for what mounts to a 6+ Ammo Roll stubgun seems really harsh, espicially if it's a juve doing the shooting. IMO Move or Fire takes care of the reloading issue.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:57 am 
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Pistols in Mordheim are S4 with a 8-10" maximum range. They generally fire once every other turn, though if you have two, you can fire once every turn. (Don't ask me how this makes sense :roll: ). If you have the "Hunter" skill, you can fire a black power weapon every turn, instead of every other, (You pick skills in Mordhiem, rather than rolling randomly) and if you have the Pistolier skill, you can shoot two pistols in one turn, though normal reloading rules apply.

I still think the move-or-fire is too harsh, especially for such a low-strength, short-ranged weapon.

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Last edited by Adoni-Zedek on Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:17 am 
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its just wrong for a "flintlock" pistol to cost more than a stubber.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:08 pm 
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It seems we like the concept of a flintlock, but the execution needs work.

I agree that maybe a club is a bit much (rules-wise) for a pistol to represent, the knife idea works well - "counts-as" designation?

I looked at the mordheim rules, and saw the absolute crap range... we could assume that the dwellers of the underhive have manged to improve the rifling in the pistol to account for the range.

As far as the cost issue, this is basically two weapons in one, could we compromise the cost and go down between 7-10 credits?

The movement v relaoding issue is tougher. Maybe this would work?

A model who wishes to move and fire the flintlock pistol must take an Initiative check to do so.

Here's a revised profile:

Flintlock Pistol
Any Ratskins or Scummers: 8-10 credits
A primitive, yet surprisingly sturdy pistol made from wood and scrap metal.
Short Rng: 0-8. Long Rng: 8-16. To Hit Lng: -1. Str: 3. Dam: 1. Ammo: 6+.

Special Rules: Take the Butt of Yer Gun an' Smash their Nose In!, Wait Until the Opportune Moment, Close Quarters, Reload!!!

Take the Butt of Yer Gun an' Smash their Nose In!: Flintlock pistols are notoriously prone to misfires, but their sturdy construction allows the wielder to take a more "hands-on" approach to fighting. If an Ammo Roll is failed, treat the flintlock pistol as an extra knife for the remainder of the battle. It may be used as normal in the next scenario.

Wait Until the Opportune Moment: Even those who have trained extensively with flintlock weapons can only manage 2-3 shots per minute due to the extensive reloading process. To represent this, any model with a flintlock pistol must make an Initiative check if it wishes to move and fire during its turn. Roll a D6. If the number rolled is less than or equal to the fighter's I value, the model may move and fire the flintlock pistol in the same turn. If the D6 roll is greater than the fighter's I value, then they may move or fire, but not both.

Close Quarters: Due to the considerable time needed to reload this weapon, if the pistol was not fired during the normal shooting phase, overwatch, etc. it may be fired only once during HtH combat. Once this shot has been made (or if the pistol was fired during the shooting phase, overwatch, etc.) the pistol cannot be fired again and counts as a knife for the remainder of HtH combat.

Reload!!!: If a model with a flintlock pistol wins a round of HtH combat, he may forego his consolidation movement to reload the gun. If this is done, the model is allowed to move and fire next turn without taking an Initiative test.


Does that work better? I just really want to find a way to make this weapon happen... I would love to see gangers with braces of pistols alongside heavy stubbers... anachronism is really cool from a converting point of view.


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