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Better Late than Never (B5)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:41 am 
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Am i missing something here....
EMP wave that destroys any & all electrical equipment.
Thermal radiation, made up of a wide range of the electromagnetic spectrum, including infrared, visible, and ultraviolet light and some soft x-rays.
Temperatures of several tens of million degrees centigrade.

Nuclear weapons arn't just big bombs FFS. :eek:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:17 am 
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Yeah, but nukes really don't work that well in space. If you can hit a ship directly with it, it will create a devastating shockwave inside the ship, but near misses won't do much more than pepper the ship with fragments of the bomb casing. You need an atmosphere to create a really nasty shockwave, and space just doesn't have it.


True, but Sheridan only used 1 nuke in space. And that was when he used it to destroy a Minbari ship, can't remember the particulars but I do remember that, something to do with an asteroid field or whatever.

The other times were when he bombed the shadow homeworld and when he went inside the thirdspace portal and then planted one in there.

Well, if it works for good ol' nuke em...

cupcake.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:25 pm 
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Granted, massive heat, radioactive particles, bomb fragments, and an explosion are all bad things, even in space.

However, I would imagine that many of the ships capable of interstellar space travel are able to handle such environmental problems.

Which would explain why most of the weapons used in the show are armor piercing munitions like lasers and hull piercing rounds.

Just a thought.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:18 pm 
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Granted, massive heat, radioactive particles, bomb fragments, and an explosion are all bad things, even in space.

However, I would imagine that many of the ships capable of interstellar space travel are able to handle such environmental problems.

Which would explain why most of the weapons used in the show are armor piercing munitions like lasers and hull piercing rounds.

Just a thought.


Are you being sarcastic?
LASERs use radiation to heat up their targets material which either melts and/or vaporises and is thus penetrated.
Concerning radiation, LASERs have absolutely nothing on nuclear weaponry.
Nuclear weapons would still be ultra mega effective against any ships that don't have some specific form of shielding to prevent it.
Unless you see ships in B5 literally travelling through stars, the argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Here's some food for thought.
A nuclear detonation briefly produces initial temperatures of around 10 million degrees celcius (as hot as a star)
Steel melts between 1400 & 1540c.
Steel vaporises at around 2900c.

Titanium is more tolerant of high temperatures and melts at 1,725c.

So even assuming that a science fiction universes materials were 10 times more resilient than todays, an atomic weapon will still annihilate them as if they were tissue paper.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:29 pm 
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If you get a direct hit, yes. If you're over a kilometer away....not much damage will result. The radiation released by a nuke is really not that much worse than the background radiation already filling intersteller space. (You'd be amazed at how much radiation our atmosphere and magnetosphere protect us from. Even the sun's solar wind provides some protection from interstellar radiation) As Mujadaddy said, most ships will already be shielded against such things.

Lasers are focused radiation, and do a fair job of maintaining their coherancy over distance. A nuke's radiation loses 7/8th of it's strength every time you double your distance from it. So if you are using nukes in an asteroid field, your best bet is to secure them to asteroids, and then detonate them when your target is on the other side of one, so the explosion will push the rock at your enemy. Not a very reliable tactic. Better than nothing, but not by much. Especially considering the ranges at which space combat typically takes place.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:49 pm 
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cupcake wrote:
True, but Sheridan only used 1 nuke in space. And that was when he used it to destroy a Minbari ship, can't remember the particulars but I do remember that, something to do with an asteroid field or whatever.

The other times were when he bombed the shadow homeworld and when he went inside the thirdspace portal and then planted one in there.

Well, if it works for good ol' nuke em...

cupcake.

Using a fake distress signal he lured their flag ship (and i think its accompanying fleet), Black Star, into a mined asteroid field. The Black Star at least was destroyed. This is why Minbari call him Sheridan Starkiller.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:59 pm 
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It wasn't really a fake distress signal. They were badly damaged. But they knew the Black Star would come to finish them off, so they prepared a little surprise. It seems like they hid about 5-6 nukes in the field?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:18 pm 
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If you get a direct hit, yes. If you're over a kilometer away....not much damage will result.


You're insane, i'll leave it at that.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:39 am 
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Yarlen-

That is an excellent way to win an argument. Just label someone "insane", and boom you win.

Granted, NUKES ARE BAD, I agree with you.

However, I would imagine that because a high yield nuke disperses it's radiation in every direction, unless you score a direct hit or the detonation is VERY close in astronomical terms, probably 200-300 kilometers.

Also, as Muja has pointed out, outside of a few hundred kilometers, most ships would probably be well projected against such radiation.

Additionally, the lasers in the show are high focus lasers designed to carve through the armored hulls of the ships. Yes, I do realize that lasers are Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation.

BEsides, if it was that simple to just blow the up the other vessels with nukes, than everyone would probably have a ton of anti-nuke interceptors or missiles. That or everyone would use nukes exclusively and fleets would consist of hordes of missile frigates, not destroyers armed with High Yield Laser batteries.

Also, the space combat would be MUCH shorter, if nukes were as powerful in this work of FICTION as you suggest they are.

However, until one of us actually builds several starships of B5 calibre and blows them up in space under varying conditions, this is a pointless argument.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:10 pm 
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That is an excellent way to win an argument. Just label someone "insane", and boom you win.


Meh, it's a reactionary response to ignorance on my part, sorry.
Ok i'll indulge your nerdish tendencies with a debate.
I'll also make a fair few assumptions based off your science fiction universe.
Quote:
Granted, NUKES ARE BAD, I agree with you.

Maybe if you'd added like a million exclamation marks after that statement it would be more appropriate, nukes aren't just bad, nukes are the most destructive insidious weapon created by mankind to date.

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However, I would imagine that because a high yield nuke disperses it's radiation in every direction, unless you score a direct hit or the detonation is VERY close in astronomical terms, probably 200-300 kilometers.


I agree, and your estimate of proximity is much more sensible but still relies on a number of factors.
What exactly is the yield of the weapon?
If i may answer this, In the last 50 years we have increased the yields of our primitive nuclear weaponry by huge leaps, The problem faced with nuclear weapons is efficiency, the bomb dropped on Hiroshima during WW2 contained 64 kg of uranium only 0.7 kg underwent nuclear fission, and of this mass only 0.6 g became energy.
So it's a ridiculously inefficient process, one i'd assume in the B5 universe would be much more advanced than our own and nuclear weapon yields would be astronomically more devastating with substantially smaller weapons.
Who knows, maybe someone with a bomb disguised as a water canteen could wipeout half a fleet.

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Also, as Muja has pointed out, outside of a few hundred kilometers, most ships would probably be well projected against such radiation.

Well no he didn't point that out, you shouldn't cover for his stupidity.
And why exactly is it so hard to get a warhead that close to a ship anyway?
I'm sure you've seen numerous engagements where 'fighter class' ships get within Muja's ridiculous 1 kilometer radius of capital class ships, there even might be a few episodes where B5 is struck by crashing ships, it wouldn't surprise me in a Science fiction universe, and you're going to try and tell me that one of those ships isn't capable of carrying a nuke?
Today you can get weapons that fit into briefcases.

I assume that the B5 universe has energy shield tehnology?
How about you design a shielded miniature torpedo, heck put multiple shield generators (as many as you like really) onto a torpedo carrying an atomic weapon.
Once the weapon gets close enough it detonates, the EMP alone would cook every circuit in the target, life support no longer works, not even the escape pods would work and everybody inside either surrenders or suffocates.
There i just won the B5 universe for you. 8-)

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Additionally, the lasers in the show are high focus lasers designed to carve through the armored hulls of the ships. Yes, I do realize that lasers are Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation.

You didn't seem to when you brought the point up.

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Besides, if it was that simple to just blow the up the other vessels with nukes, than everyone would probably have a ton of anti-nuke interceptors or missiles. That or everyone would use nukes exclusively and fleets would consist of hordes of missile frigates, not destroyers armed with High Yield Laser batteries.


Ahh now we get to the crux of the problem, B5 is a television show for nerds who generally know absolutely nothing about military tactics OR weaponry for that matter, B5 is about the story right?, not nukes.

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However, until one of us actually builds several starships of B5 calibre and blows them up in space under varying conditions, this is a pointless argument.

You're absolutely right with this one, B5 ships don't exist and can therefore only be theorized on.
Atomic weaponry of multiple designs actually does exist and actually has been used or extensively tested and we have rock solid information on what they're capable of.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:54 am 
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Yarlen Fireblade wrote:
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Also, as Muja has pointed out, outside of a few hundred kilometers, most ships would probably be well projected against such radiation.

Well no he didn't point that out, you shouldn't cover for his stupidity.

Muja's ridiculous


Wow, wot a d!ckhead.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:59 pm 
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B5 was totally rad, when I was a teen. My sweaty hormones quickly latched onto Ivanova's muscular thighs and indulged in various naughty boy/ discipline fantasies.

I remember being blown away by the FX, I wonder how well they have aged?

:lol: @ Yarlen. Calm down, man. Save it for the OT threads.

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