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Morrowind

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:25 pm 
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Bongo_clive wrote:
No, you're missing the point. If a goblin has certain stats a the start of the game, I want him to have those stats forever. When I'm new and rubbish, then I expect to struggle against him, but after a few hours, I expect them to be easy. Instead I have to fart around with them constantly, when I should be off fighting bigger, harder things.


yeah, but due to the openness of the engine, it just wouldnt work as you can access all areas at any stage of the game.
thus, if everything was easy at the start of the game and stayed easy till the end, there would be no challenge at all.

incidently, this works the same way in fallout 3, same engine, for exactly the same reasons.

if you are really complaining about oblivion being hard, then learn to play it better.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:21 pm 
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Uhm. Yeah, no.

How are scaling mobs preventing you from accessing any areas that you're not meant to?

Say you start off as a lvl1 nobody and can hardly kill a goblin. So now that enemies scale, you're just as likely to kill said goblin but also more likely to kill higher level mobs. More likely compared to them not scaling anyway.

Direct comparison to Fallout3: I waltzed into Fort Independence at lvl3. Killed everyone. On "hard". Huzzah? If the damn enemies wouldn't scale, i woulda been dead before i could say "ratburger".

In conclusion, scaling enemies just allow for crap players to not get killed by a chance encounter higher lvl mob. Scaling certainly doesn't prevent you from accessing areas that you're not meant to, rather the other way around, since you get to kill tougher mobs when you're way below their lvl. In contrast, non scaling enemies will rape your every cold, dead orifice as soon as you pop up somewhere you're not supposed to be.

If we now return to our friend Bongo's desire to manhandle a couple of goblins and pick his nose during the process, well, by the time he's powerful enough to do that with non scaling enemies, he won't care about goblin loot, it's chump change.

Thus, non scaling enemies are the way to go and any other way around is non realistic, freaking irritating, shows a lack of good design work and generally proves that the people who made it were to damn lazy to work it all out.

P.S.: At the very least, they coulda made it so that there's like 5 regular whathaveyous in place of 1 tough zillamob. That i can live with.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:42 am 
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Thus, non scaling enemies are the way to go and any other way around is non realistic, freaking irritating, shows a lack of good design work and generally proves that the people who made it were to damn lazy to work it all out.


Yea basically, what I find most annoying is instead of having say hoards of non scaling enemies (or enemies that are for example 1/4 or half your skill level) with a percentage chance of running into a leader or boss or 'comparatively equal' challenging opponent to yourself.
The way Oblivion scales it, at higher levels EVERY goblin is a top level Shaman OR Warlord, so you're trying to clean out a goblin cave with 15 Goblin warlords inside, what is it a Goblin Warlord convention?

It just gets frustratingly tedious when every goblin takes 5 minutes to kill even when you're a master swordsman with a full Daedric suit and a double handed weapon.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:30 am 
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Well, personally, I would actually go for a combination of the two. There are advantages and disadvantages to both obviously.

The major disadvantage of scaling enemies is the lack of the 'feel' of progression, which is the main cause of the lack of satisfaction.

However, the main advantage is adding to the longevity of the game. In Morrowindesque games, once you have reached the 'upper echelon' (eg more powerful than the most powerful enemy) then the game is basically over.

This happens in most scaled games anyway, the big disadvantage of Morrowind games is that the equipment & spells and enemies don't significantly change as the game scales. They just have more hit points, more damage...

For a more fun game, you want smarter enemies, more weak ones, different abilities etc so that you have to adapt playstyle. Most of all you want good story...

I reckon "intelligent" scaling would be a more appropriate way of doing things. Eg, rather than "everything is your level" you set monsters to have abilities dependent on your level. It would be much more of a headache, but would give a better feel.

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