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Palladium books in trouble....

 Post subject: Palladium books in trouble....
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:42 am 
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Master Gunner
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Hi guys, I just heard that Palladium are in trouble. You might want to check palladium books in wikipedia. There's also a forum out here...

http://forums.palladium-megaverse.com/i ... 65b9bf32a5

Personally I preferred the 1st Palladium fantasy rpg. When I read about the troubles I sympathise with those who work with him.

Whatever. There's a few Palladium fans out here right?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:59 pm 
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I'm a Palladium (specifically, Rifts) fan. I heard a while back that they were in trouble; I ordered a book through a local gaming shop and discovered indirectly that something was amiss. At the time, I wasn't sure if it was just that store choosing not to carry Palladium books anymore (which wasn't the case).


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:53 pm 
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I'm a big fan of the Palladium system, its fast and vague in a lot of good ways. I've played a lot of fun games with it. Though I like the SDC stuff much more than the Rifts stuff. It would be really sad if Palladium went under.

Though it does make me wonder what would happen. Suppose that Palladium did go bankrupt and had to sell all of its assets off. Suppose that somebody besides Kevin S. got the rights to all the rules. Then would he start a new company with a different set of rules? A better set of rules with 20 plus years of hindsight?


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The game designers themselves know these values are not realistic and they do not intend them to replace or invalidate the fluff. So let's get on with our lives and not fixate over the cosmic ramifications of game mechanics which we already know are streamlined for larger forces at the expense of detail.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:17 pm 
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Master Gunner
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I played mostly with Palladium fantasy (revised) edition. When they released the 2nd revised edition with SDC I lost my taste for it. I've been looking for a copy of the very first palladium fantasy rpg but even though some books on ebay were advertised as released in 85' they tell me its still the (revised) edition which I already own.

Does anyone know what the original PFRPG looks like?

In the past I bought some of the Rifts products but I had this feeling something didn't feel right. Some of the supplements like sourcebook 1 and the vampire kingdoms made me want to puke. Palladium tends to just print out some NPC characters and tell you this is an adventure. Even warhammer fantasy put more work into their adventures.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:21 pm 
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Unctuous Toady
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kharille wrote:
I played mostly with Palladium fantasy (revised) edition. When they released the 2nd revised edition with SDC I lost my taste for it. I've been looking for a copy of the very first palladium fantasy rpg but even though some books on ebay were advertised as released in 85' they tell me its still the (revised) edition which I already own.

Does anyone know what the original PFRPG looks like?


I don't see what the mystique of the original Palladium Fantasy rules are. The 1985 version was a fully developed and fleshed out version of that system. Maybe I'm missing something here, but as far as I know, adding SDC to Palladium Fantasy shouldn't have caused any problems. In fact, it should have made the game better. I never thought that was the reason that people didn't like the latest fantasy rules.

I think I have seen the original Palladium Fantasy rules. They were very cheaply made, much like the original D&D rules. Basically 8.5" x 11" paper folded in half and stapled down the spine. The typesetting looked like it was from an actual typewriter and not anything close to professional. I think those old books should be considered collectable relics. I can't see them as being better than the 1985 editions. Or did they have some really neat features that I don't know about?

When I say "SDC Palladium games", I'm refering to games that DON'T use Mega Damage. I loved mega-damage in the original Robotech (Macross) books. What a brilliant idea! Battletech wished that they had come up with such a simple and effective system. But once you could wear mega damage personal armor and carry mega damage rifles and pistols then the balance was totally destroyed.

Back in high school I played a lot of TMNT and had a lot of fun with it. I was the game master and pretty much let the players do what they wanted. This lead to them becoming something more like Psychotic Mutant Animal Vigilanti Outlaws. Must have been all that teenaged angst that we were working through at that age. ;)

kharille wrote:
In the past I bought some of the Rifts products but I had this feeling something didn't feel right. Some of the supplements like sourcebook 1 and the vampire kingdoms made me want to puke. Palladium tends to just print out some NPC characters and tell you this is an adventure.


I've looked at the writer's guidelines for Rifts (all Palladium products I suppose). And they specifically mention that you should include new NPCs, new skills, new powers, new weapons, etc when you submit advantures to Palladium. Apparently that is what players really like. In my humble opinion, Palladium has made a science out of rules escalation through Rifts.


kharille wrote:
Even warhammer fantasy put more work into their adventures.


Wait. Are you suggesting that the old Warhammer Fantasy Role-Play adventures were bad? I've never heard that. Now, I've never heard many reviews of them one way or the other come to think of it. But they always looked cool, very dark atmospheric artwork and seemingly detailed plots.


Truckler

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The game designers themselves know these values are not realistic and they do not intend them to replace or invalidate the fluff. So let's get on with our lives and not fixate over the cosmic ramifications of game mechanics which we already know are streamlined for larger forces at the expense of detail.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:35 pm 
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The only real contact I have had with Palladium is Robotech. Now, while I loved Robotech (the RPG) it was mainly because I loved Robotech (the anime). The system left a little something missing, in my mind. Parts of it were good, but parts were sub-standard.

One thing I will say, however, is that they did a fair amount of research into the books. They pulled pictures and information for all of the mecha - even if they did mangle a few in the stats - from both Robotech and the original Macross. Every unit was given the familiar (to me) Robotech name, and the original Macross name. In fact, it was through the game books that I discovered Robotech was the mutant offspring of Japanese animation, hence deepening my interest for Japanese animation in particular, and Japan in general.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:48 am 
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Master Gunner
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Heh, Truckler, you're a Rogue trader man and we do think alike. I had a feeling that what I wrote was a bit incomplete but I'm not in the mood to worry about peoples sensitivities. But I think we agree with one another on a lot ofthings.


Back in 92', there was no SDC for palladium fantasy. a 2d6 battleaxe blow was quite a shock to the system. I think that's so since historically you tended to lose limbs and have cuts to arteries that you can't afford not to address. It's all nice to have a john wayne film where you get shot and don't bother with first aid but that's just hollywood.

Back in 92' I thought Ninjas and superspies was amazing stuff. Yet the idea of including axe kicks and stuff like that in palladium fantasy just lost all the medieval feeling.

I love the 85' (revised) edition so much I want to obtain the original copy just as a collectors item. I just think it went down hill just like what happened to Rogue trader. Some smart business guy figured out how to make money with it and later editions and rifts made me want to puke.

Yeah, MDC stuff really didn't appeal to me. My players tended to favour glitterboy armour and do their 2d6 x 10 MDC damage. Sorta' bored me how they wanted to focus on fighting rather than storyline.

When I first heard about Palladium it was through TMNT. I managed to buy an original TMNT book with the classifications, the secondary, academic, and whatever designation skills. Sometime afterwards they standardized the skill system.

Let me tell you, if you want quality adventures you MUST check out Dave Morris's Dragon Warriors. it's unfortunate that Home of the Underdogs is wasted, but this guy focused on writing out great adventures, lots of background, great twists. When I looked at the Villains unlimited, or the 'adventures' at the back of the tmnt adventure book, or the numerous 'adventures' in most available palladium 92' supplements I just want to throw up since all they have is a couple of limited imagination NPC characters. If you compare that with Dragon Warriors you'd realize how empty these roll up printed texts mean.


Heh, compared to Dragon Warriors WFRP was total alimentary canal reject. One of my sickest memories was the Empire in Flames book. The ending has some idiot dwarf or whatever quoting something out of Aliens "Not bad... for humans". If they can't focus on a decent script and write a load of trash they ought to quit and focus on imaginative toilet roll decoration. I did own the doomstones campaign. However, if they're goiong to waste good gaming time framing players with sexual encounters with gypsies they ought to quit and work in kleenex texture design.



Anyways, you'd have to check out the Dragon Warriors book 4 adventures to realize how WFRP pales in comparison. And since home of the underdogs is wasted..... come to think of it.....

Nah, the link ain't working. Anyway, I think we agree on a lot of things. Not had much time to check out Robotech. I think I owned one of the rulebooks but I ain't sure it was the same version. Can't remember the copy I had.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:56 pm 
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My Palladium Books experience mostly comes from playing Robotech a very long time ago, owning some of their historical (not exactly gaming) sourcebooks and two short RIFTS campaigns that never got very far. I have also corresponded with Kevin Siembieda, who left me with a positive impression, especially since (looking back on it) I was just some kid writing him with dumb questions.

The Palladium products I have are well put together and look nice (whereas some of my TSR and FASA books have such awful artwork I think the book would have been better off with none at all). Palladium books DO come down on the "Crunchy" (new rules in every book) side rather than the "Fluffy" side of things. This is a concern all over the gaming industry and was famously highlighted back when WotC was putting out the Silver Marches book for Forgotten Realms. The corporate overlords had recognized that books with new rules always sell better than books that are just fluff, and they demanded "Crunchier" products from their writers. If you poke around on the 'net you can still find their plea for people to buy their book or it would be the last "Fluffy" book they were allowed to write.

Overall, I think the Palladium game mechanics are a mediocre ripoff of the old D&D rules. Maybe they have evolved since I played them, but their "borrowed from D&D" origins were clear when I played them. Most of my regular gaming group hates RIFTS and would never consider playing it, mostly because of game balance problems like MDC versus SDC. In truth, I think it's just a game system that requires tight GM control over game balance, and a bit of fudging in combat, to keep things balanced. Anyone here play Champions? If you just let people make whatever character they want, your campaign will be horribly unbalanced and you will have a hard time challenging one character without vaporizing another. Exersizing some control over the extremely broad character creation system is a requirement for a balanced game.

While FASA may have been driven into the ground by it's own mismanagement, I think Palladium was really dealt a bad hand it didn't deserve. Since I'm a sucker for a hard luck story and I do have a generally favorable view of Palladium and their products, I have ordered one of their high-priced prints. Considering how much money I already throw at GW (a company I really don't have much respect for due to their price-gouging business practices) I figured it was the least I could do.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:01 pm 
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My RIFTS experience has been nothing but fun, limited as it may be. I, as GM, never found the issue of MDC versus SDC to be a big deal, and neither did my players. That may have had something to do with the fact that all my games were more player/story oriented than rules/combat oriented, but there were still situations where combat was called for.

I think the most logical way of dealing with the SDC/MDC inequality would be a direct conversion. Rather than considering 1 MDC to be 100 SDC, you could simply say that a laser pistol does 2D6 SDC damage instead, or that a suit of Plastic Man body armor simply provided the equivalent of 18 SDC in protection.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:41 am 
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The Home of the Underdogs is not dead yet!

The DNS registration has failed, yes, but the site itself is still accessible via the raw IP number. Which is thus; http://209.120.136.195/

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