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Has this ever happened to you?

 Post subject: Has this ever happened to you?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:44 am 
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Officer of the Watch
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This is directly related to Renesononline (check out the topic if you want to know more) An ongoing (well hopefully not) argument ran like this.

#1. Imperial guard recruit gives something similar to an order to a sergeant.

#2. Roleplayer thinks of what his character would do, and decides she'd get really pissed off, marches over and shouts at him.

#3. My character attempts to diffuse the situation and is duly ignored.

#4. They have a fight (recruit and sergeant) which ends in something of a stalemate, mostly in the sergeant's favour.

The problem, the 2nd guy reckoned his sergeant should have been able to win outright (accusing mod of favouritsm, hidden aces, etc etc) while the other guy mantained that a draw was a fair enough result.

Has anything like this ever happened in one of your roleplays?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:17 am 
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well no it hasnt happened to me.

however putting aside random very, very lucky circumstances where the recruit could beat up the sergent, or even draw with him, he should be beaten into a pulp by the sergent for disobeying him.
i mean, that IS kinda why the sergent is there. his job is to train and deal out punishment in good form. movies and books like Full Metal Jacket and the Serpent War series by R. E. Fiest set a clear example of this.

if the recruit is able to beat up the sergent then it shows a problem with the stats and/or rules of the game you are playing.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:31 am 
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Well the problem is that the 2nd roleplayer has only just made this new character and started AS a sergeant, as did the new recruit. The sergeant chose only 2 close combat skills relevant, unarmed and knife but didnt use a knife at first, whereas the recruit had footwork, acrobatic and handled, which he used a small axe with and used the side without a blade so as not to damage the sergeant.
The posts they PMed to me so I made a decision showed 2 (sergeant) try to trip up the other by putting his leg behind the other and pushing. He would have won except for the fact that 1 is "stocky" and has the footwork skill, therefore isn't tripped up at first and when he does he pulls the sergeant with him as he is stonger than the female sergeant who is more athletic than muscly. At the end she has a knife under his throat, he has an axe in front of her face as she fell on top of it. And #1 has a background of being a hitman on necromunda which would mean he can be just as tough as a sergeant in close combat at least.

There has been quite an arguement so if you want to read all the relevant arguments you can find them here, I hope Im allowed to link...

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Last edited by Deathangel on Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:32 am 
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I think it depends upon how you look at it.

1. What is appropriate for the setting?
Is the setting for this game Warhammer 40,000? If so then you sort of expect a raw recruit to be wimpy and wet behind the ears while a sergeant (veteran or not) should be a real tough guy (or gal). That's just the nature of the setting and since role-playing is all about playing the role of ficticious people in a fictional setting then having raw recruits back talk and subsequently fight off their sergeant just doesn't fly.


2. How cinematic is the game?
I would say that in reality a sergeant, even one who hasn't seen combat, has spend four or more years training in hand to hand combat and intensively exercising on a regular basis. They should be in good shape and know how to fight. Meanwhile your average recruit is going to be young and fit, but hardly experienced in combat. That's what you would expect for the real world, but how cinematic or heroic is the campaign?

Imagine your typical war movie. You've got your tough-as-nails sergeant leading a motley crew of colorful and unlikely misfits. Sure the sarg is a bad ass, but what about the other members of the team? Could "Bull" the giant cornfed kid from Nebraska just pound sarg into the ground if they fought? What about Tony the kid from Philly who was on his way to becoming a boxing prize fighter before being drafted? How about Wild Bill the squad's bonafide psycho who everyone knows is just going to snap one day? What about Sanchez the hardened gang member who was given a choice by a judge "Enlist or go to prison"?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:36 am 
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Well yes if it was a plain recruit fighting a sergeant then obviously the sergeant would kick some easy butt. But (no pun intended :P ) the other is an old assassin gangmember with more relevant skills chosen, and I don't want background to have too much effect as in "my sergeant fought in these 18 campaigns" in background then this should not give too much of an undue advantage as everyone will compete to have the most powerful background, which makes for over powered characters at the expense of good RPing. The fact is that for both characters this is their first fight in Reneson and the sergeant is still in the process of being transferred from her home planet, and SHE initiated the fight.


The setting is indeed WH40k, on Tyel, a planet designed purely for this RPG.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:12 pm 
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see, so the recruit isnt really very green and has had some combat experience in the past is that it? if so then its ok that he drew with the sergent. tho i would sugest next time making sure the sergent can beat him up.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:22 pm 
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Well, having read through the fight, I can see some of the skills are going to need clarifications. Both parties are trying to suck as much ability from both as they can, but those skills are not necessarily as useful as they think they are.

As someone who has experience in how close combat works (security training), I) can safely say that when a person is so in-your-face that you can smell their breath, weapons - especially large ones - are useless.

There was an awful lot of God-modding by both there. In any free-form narrative RPG, the most important thing to remember is you cannot say what happens to another - you can only describe your own actions, never the results of them.

Regardless, the moderator's decision is always final, and if a player doesn't like it then they need to either put up, shut up, or ship out. I've run a number of RPGs, and the primary rule is: this is the GMs world. It's okay to disagree a bit, but do not ever defy. If there is a mechanics problem, you discuss it privately or after the game - don't go ruining it for everybody else while in play.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:43 pm 
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from my perspective it's just an example of how things can get out of hand if people take something that's supposed to be fun too seriously. then again i haven't had to mod PC v.s. PC combat yet. just a bystanding mod's viewpoint.


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