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My problem with RPG's

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:23 am 
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Sweet, a fellow percentile player!

I agree it should be cumulative. And the Sleeper was on the boat?? What? WHAT!? No. No, no, no, no, no, no. . . No. I've always been a firm believer that if the Sleeper awakens, no one will ever know it.

But thats cause the world will turn inside out and chaos will devour the universe. . . Ahhh Yeah.

If anyone deserves to be "He-who-must-not-be-named," its the Sleeper.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:21 pm 
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That's what I'm sayin brother! 8) I'm all for meeting the big bad boys of the game, if it's a culmination of the final struggle our charatcers are to have before we retire them. One of the best games I ever played was with a friend who had to retire his charatcer. Yet when we started a new game and our new characters had to have some guidance and direction, we could go to my friends retired charatcer. It was cool, because we never knew if we could trust the old character; he was retired cause he was all kinds of taco salad craaaaaaaaaazee! Crazy, I tell you, crazy. But the player could act great, so it was awesome to see him come in as the crazy one with all kinds of Cthulhu mythos knowledge and then revert later to the forensic specialist (mortician). Just a great player. Seriously dude, crazy.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:33 pm 
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SamuraiCat wrote:
This is exactly the problem I have in trying to run a CoC (Call of Cthulhu) game. The characters are made, fleshed out backgrounds, the same for NPC's and the players are all briefed beforehand; new investigators thus have no true knowlege of the dangers in the world. Yet, once the game begins, everyone makes comments, ""Don't open the THAT door!" "There's a (insert unmentionable creature here) in the basement, I bet." "Oh it's probably a ...." Whoa! Hold please, hold please, please hold, uh, YOU SUCK! What is wrong with you? Your character has no knowledge of the Cthulhu mythos yet and why are you even trying to figure out what monster it is to begin with? Your character is brand new, he's a freakin musician in a honky-tonk bar in Oklahoma that made a bad bet and is now wrapped up with the other loser charatcers! Comeon, work with me will you?


The best way I know of to run a Call of Cthulu game involves throwing the CoC rulebook out of the window. Instead you break open GURPS or Unisystem or Fudge or whatever generic rulesystem you like and tell the players you want to run a cops game or an investigators game (or something) with horror overtones. Don't tell the players they are up against the Mythos and they are far less likely to guess and hence to metagame.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:42 am 
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Neonchameleon wrote:
The best way I know of to run a Call of Cthulu game involves throwing the CoC rulebook out of the window. Instead you break open GURPS or Unisystem or Fudge or whatever generic rulesystem you like and tell the players you want to run a cops game or an investigators game (or something) with horror overtones. Don't tell the players they are up against the Mythos and they are far less likely to guess and hence to metagame.


Actually, one of the funnest CoC style cames - though we called it survival horror cause the players I game with are very generic (and bunk insanity just RP!!) - was with mortal characters based off of the new World of Darkness rules set. Freaking loads of fun and really difficult to break if you're willing to follow the Camarilla Chronicle rules for a LARP. Lots of balance, lots of suspense, and none of "Okay I do this to react." Play your part. No, BE your part. Immerse yourself in the darkness that has been set before you and I promise you the first time you wretch from fear your character is experiencing, you'll never go to a different style of play.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:02 am 
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World of Darkness, excellent. I played in a game of CoC using those rules. The Game master was just an incredible storyteller. Everyone had a great time. Good call on WoD.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:58 pm 
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Having players blurt out what monster is or isn't behind the door even though their characters wouldn't know it, is absolutely a pain n the backs ide and a game spoiler.

I was running a small D&D game and I had a scenario where the traveling companions came upon a deserted roadside inn. Well appearantly deserted. Upon closer inspection it appeared that the victims had all been drained of blood, there was holy symbols everywhere, garlic, and makeshift stakes. It obviously looked like the Inn had been undersiege by one or more vampires.

One of the players then blurts out...oh it can't be a vampire, we are to low of level it has to be an invisible stalker!! GAHH!!

He was right of course, but the other players didn't know that, and so of course all the fun was ruined.

And of course crappy GM's are just as bad. I had one guy GM a game where the intrepid adventurers had to wander through the city sewers for some reason or another. And this, I swear is no joke, is the descriptions we were given.

GM-The sewers goes north for 20' then a tee intersection you can right or left.

Players - Um, well we go left.

GM - Sewer goes for 40' then a tee intersection and you can right or left.

Players - maybe there is an episode of Americas Next Top Model on or something.

GM's don't have to be miracle workers but a little effort will certainly go a long way!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:40 pm 
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Not really sure which of those examples was worse, the dull GM or the spoiler-player! :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:18 am 
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McCragge wrote:
One of the players then blurts out...oh it can't be a vampire, we are to low of level it has to be an invisible stalker!! GAHH!!


Its an unfortunate fact that some people can not stop metagaming. I personally have an answer for these people. Its rather devious and simple really.

In the above case, make it a Vampire. Yeah, its way out of their league. But here's the catch: he's after the spoiler character. The Vamp was sent on a Geas by some greater power, perhaps the maint campaign antagonist, perhaps Vecna himself! It doesn't really matter. Then, after the dramatic combat, and even more dramatic capture (maybe the vamp wounds, but not kills all the other characters, Dominates spoiler boy and runs off with his new prize. . . Maybe he bites him and the threat of him becoming a Vamp spawn of Vamp himself is the new plot hook, I don't really care) you all take a 10 minute break.

You then take spoiler boy aside during the break and ask him if he continues to play, will it continue to happen? If he says no, remind him that you reserve the right to *PWASHA* turn him into a spawn (my favorite way of dealing with this) and make him leave your game permanently. In the mean time, the group can alchemy up some potion to put off the effects once a week until they can someday get that Vamp and kill him and save the toon. And if he spoils again, reduce the effect of the potion to once a day. And the third strike . . . Well "you're OUT!"

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:07 am 
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Mattsama, sweet idea. My only quibble is that a lot of meta-players are notorious for being "persecuted" and crying foul if anything goes against them. Naturally, exceptions abound, but when I'm dealing with a player who pouts over his own dice rolls, it makes me wary to try and put anything over on him plotwise. They whine. It does however remind me of a GM who kept threatening me with a meteor anytime we crossed his big bad...

Luckily, all those people eventually show themselves the door anyhow. A solution that heads in a slightly different direction is to toss aside the D&D-ness of it. How many different vampire power collections are there in all the settings? Add in all the myths, movies, and TV shows. Or the vampire was a devout cleric of [Different] religion, and thus has no psychological affliction to the holy symbols present.

When I run D&D, the players are always into D&D more than I am, so I steal my best ideas from other games. Different enemies, gods, plots, etc. Let them roll Knowledge (Undead Monsters) and clue them in to this being the rare and oft overlooked moroii which has a different power set. Now they're on a quest to track down the new bad's identity & powers and they get some satisfaction for being trailblazers in monster-hunting.

When in doubt, call for Knowledge (Whatever) rolls and if the characters don't have the proper knowledge base, tell the player to quiet down.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:18 am 
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jalinde wrote:
Mattsama, sweet idea. My only quibble is that a lot of meta-players are notorious for being "persecuted" and crying foul if anything goes against them. Naturally, exceptions abound, but when I'm dealing with a player who pouts over his own dice rolls, it makes me wary to try and put anything over on him plotwise. They whine. It does however remind me of a GM who kept threatening me with a meteor anytime we crossed his big bad...


I have always sort of been on a power trip when I'm a DM and as such get really defensive of my games. Not the story or the ideas . . . the fun. If you are ruining MY fun and MY PLAYERS fun, I am not afraid to rip a hole in the multiverse and drop a Imperial-class Star Destroyer on your hinny.

But seriously. I've had a player I ran that (nearly) exact scenario on (except it was one of the uber-assassin outsiders in a game that was on the cusp of epicdom). He looked me square in the eyes and whined that it wasn't fair that his character was being hunted. I looked back and said (100% gods honest truth here) "Would you rather get attacked by an angry mob of peasants? I'm sure a Drow in this town could cause enough of a racist stir they might be willing to break into the armory and raid the Wands of Magic Missile 5 room. Death by Magic Missile at level 19 . . . could you ever really live it down?"

"But!"

"I wasn't finished. On the subject of fairness. Is it fair that you consistently interrupt the games with your OOC metagmaing banter and ruin the mood with off-color jokes and humor for the rest of my players (all of whom at this time are snickering at this tounge lashing)?"

"I guess not"

"No. Its not. Now this little hickup in the plot is both you punishment and your chance to correct yourself. If you want to keep up your normal actions, leave, and the party can find you dead in a day or two. Or, you can try to make the game for everyone here, and not just yourself, and they can mount a rescue. The choice is yours."

He stood up miffed (probably more from embarrassment then anything else and left the room). I shrugged, we continued on, and 20 minutes later he came back with a 12-pack of Dr. Pepper, a large hand-tossed meat-lovers' from Pizza Hut (the groups staple) and apologized and asked everyone if they would accept him back.

I guess the moral of the story is that when it comes to problem players (in my experience mind you), you have to lay it out flat. And any lesson you learn by embarrassment is one you never forget (something I hold true in my career training in the AF). It doesn't work for a lot of people, and some people don't have the ability to detach mentally and stop being a friend and start being the authority figure . . .

I totally fear for my first child LOL

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:48 pm 
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hehehe and the C.K. strikes again!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:21 pm 
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Mattsama wrote:
hehehe and the C.K. strikes again!


C.K. ???


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:05 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:42 am 
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I have to say that I hate it someone who has to ID the creatures in a game. Even when there character wouldn't know what they are or anything about them.

As a player I try not to do that. It is hard since I know a lot of the creatures from DMing.

But I find it is more fun to play stupid on it and watch people who have never run into that creature work to figure it out.

Just recently I was gaming with a group who went totally over board on a monster. Massive overkill. Then the creature that they should have done that too they tried to walk over and we all got stomped.

But like most people will tell you it is more commen to run into the players that think they know everything and try to impress everyone at the table with their knowledge of the game and rules. :-(

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:12 am 
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That's why you should play games like Call of Cthuhlu. That game punishes and limits player identification by:

1. Driving a character insane for looking in the first place. The wise PC shoots one of his co-investigators in the leg and then runs without looking.

2. Having wonderful Lovecraft inspired descriptions like "It's an indescribable horror that your mind cannot comprehend".

3. By just killing investigators when monsters turn up for being stupid enough to try and fight them.

Image
Yeah, he really does that in game. Not that anyone ever ends up fighting him. You'd need a group of 100+ Investigators to have a chance (it's worth noting that Cthulhu doesn't kill any NPCs around, he goes straight for the Investigators with that ability).

Oh and it helps that the game is probably the best written RPG out there and very different from the normal hack and slash types.

:wink:

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