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GorkaMorka Redux

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:52 pm 
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Just to say that I'm interested in the whole gorkamorka redux idea, theres just too much text for me to take in all at once. I'll try and read it all tomorrow, as I'm off for some well earned sleep.


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:23 pm 
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Likewise...i am interested..I have all the GM publication and orignial AW stuff. I will try to review some this weekend.


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:50 am 
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Cool, more people :D

And just so you can take in this project at a glance: the idea is to rewrite GM as a Necromunda add on, probably using the AW vehicle rules (an add-on to an add-on so to speak). Apart from altering the rules to fit better with Necromunda, the following changes have been proposed:

increased shooting Strengths
increased vehicle variety*
more "houses," possibly styled after 40k Ork Clans
more skill tables
altered cost system (which also means altered income chart)
AW style starting money (ie you get extra to buy vehicles with)
Mordheim style RT (to include gubbinz) and items
Hired Gunz

After these basics are taken care of, there's room for other, unique aspects to be incorporated eg:
GM events
Special Hired gunz (boarboyz, kommandos etc.)
Weirder vehicles (ork walkers?)
Tagz


*you'd still have the 3 basic types, bikez, trukkz and trakz, but with greater variety in terms of transport capapcity and starting armour.


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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 12:37 pm 
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How about the possibility of a different pricing system? Instead of the low cost of teeth?

For Orcs it could still be called Teef but at a rate or level that is comparable with Necromunda. A more uniform system of payment that would be understandiable or more easily convertable.

Like noted by others that is where the old Ash Nomads pricing would be great and maybe move weapons and models over to a system like or similiar to Necro.


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:06 am 
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already got that one covered man, we use the existing price scale (ie 100 teef = 1000 creds), but we go into 0.5s, or half teef. this gives you better variety and more accuracy in pricing, whilst keeping inside the fluff (giving ork bosses 1000 teef to start with seems someone incredible).

It also means any necromunda price can be converted simply by moving the decimal point one place to the left.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 3:20 pm 
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Great


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 4:05 am 
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I don't however think that GM teef should be balanced for necromunda (ie a weapon that costs 20 credits is going to be better than one that costs 2 teef)


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 10:15 am 
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That's a thought. But what kind of thing should cost 2 teef? Ranged weapons are already weaker in GM because of the absence of pinning.

Also, the S/T differences between the two games might be an issue with regards to guns. I'm not sure that I like the idea of weapons being balanced for Orks but finding that Diggas get blown away because the typical shoota (or whatever autogun-style weapon) is S4. It might be an idea to try and keep toughnesses generally equal between gangs (maybe making Orks T3 and giving them some kind of trick to make them more resilient, or making Diggas T4 and having them go OOA on a 5+). I don't know really, there's probably a better way around it. Adjusting the rules for Digga gang creation might be enough, making them into a gang that can absorb casualties without having to fool around with special rules.


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 10:43 am 
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to my mind, weapons in GM should be less effective than their equivalents in Necromunda, its fluffier and more fun if ork gunz are shorter ranged and less accurate. However the Status quo is absurd. So I reckon S4+ for gunz/pistolz.

To be perfectly honest I'm not that fussed about Diggas and Grots. They are a secondary consideration to the main Ork "houses," and we'll just have to fit their rules in as best we can. Making them a bit like AW shanty dwellers sounds like a fairly good idea, the fact they can be pinned means they are less tough than orks, even if they have the same T. Or just make them dead cheap.
I should point out that i have never had a copy of digganob. Diggas seemed like weaker Orks, I never fancied playing a Grot gang, and Muties seemed both too expensive and too detached from the things i liked about GM. So if we want to incorporate them into the redux, someone with a copy is going to need to step in.


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:26 am 
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Just to give some idea what I'm thinking for relative weapon costs + effectiveness, i'll post a comparison (i've only posted the stats that are different).

Firstly: 6-shoota/Slugga* vs Autopistol
6-shoota/Slugga Range: 0-6-12 _ To hit: +1/- _ Strength: 4 _ Notes: Slugga only-1 Sus. Fire, 1 turn to reload _ Cost: 2 teef
Autopistol Range: 0-8-16 _ To Hit: +2/- Strength:3 _ Cost: 15 creds

The ork pistol costs 5 credits more, and has worse ranges and worse hit mods. it has S4, but an Ork's starting T is 4 (so its basically the same as the A-pistol

Secondly: Shoota vs Autogun
Shoota Range: 0-12-18 _ To hit: +1/- _ Strength: 4 _ Cost: 2 teef
Autogun range: 0-12-24 _ To Hit: +1/- _ Strength:3 _ Cost: 20 creds

Same Price, Shoota has worse long Range. Otherwise basically the same

Lastly: Kannon vs Shotgun
Kannon Strength: 4(skatter)/5(slug) _ Notes: Knockdown _ Cost: 3 teef(?)
Shotgun Strength: 3(scatter)/4(solid) _ Notes: Knockback _ Cost: 20 creds

Knockback works differently in GM, it actually knocks orks over (not many buildings to fall off in the desert). Kannons can't get Manstopper etc shells, but i thought it would increase their tactical flexibility if Wrecka and Burna shells were available, maybe as Rare items. Other than that the price is the most obvious difference (a whole 10 creds)

Finally, i thnk it might be an idea to change the prices for Mek upgrades (potentially 60 credits for a +1 S upgrade). Not sure how though, it needs to stay random and risky, or that takes the fun out of it.

Addendum: GM is a game with a lot of vehicles (or should be). starting armour is 8 for most locations, 10 for the engine. A S4 weapon can cause a hit on a 4+, or a 6+ for the engine (though if you look at the vehicle damage charts you'll see how hard it is to cause serious damage). And given how easy it is to increase the armour rating on a vehicle, you can see S4+ is a vital change.


*I've swapped the slugga and 6-shoota stats around, because it seemed to fit the general description of the weapons better.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:22 pm 
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Further thought: Some people have talked about using Snakebites in GM. I don't think they would be viable as a House Gang, but as an "outlander" gang they would fit (there are no outlaw rules as such in GM). They get boars and beasts instead of vehicles, plus some different fluff, and an alternative to spannerz, maybe a shaman or sime such. sorted.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:06 pm 
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That all seems pretty good. I think a Snakebite-esque Feral Ork gang would be pretty good, if only for the opportunity for a boar-drawn chariot contraption charging into the side of a trukk and flipping it over. They wouldn't fit in with the whole Mektown aspect of it though, so something would have to be worked out to replace that.

The weapons are around the kind of power I'd like to see. What about CC weapons, though? Do we just put +1S on most of them? I guess that's the simplest answer.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:35 pm 
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Well, they'd still be going into mektown to trade for supplies and arms. They wouldn't be opposed to the House Mobs in the same way Outlander and House gangs are in the underhive. They just prefer to do things "the old fashioned way."
Of course they might need some alternative gubbinz, while a wrecking ball mounted on the back of some desert squig beast would be pretty cool, they can't be made go-faster... Incidently, what do you call a creature between squig and squigoth size? a squigette?

I don't think CC weapons need changing at all, (Except for the spear, i've never been happy with the way it works.) my proposed changes would just about level the shooting-CC power balance, i don't want to upset it again.
Alright, you need to pay 10+ credits to get a S=T attack, but I'd be unhappy making Choppas and Stikkbombz S5. Its easy enough to get S5 attacks already*, and i don't want to tilt things back in CC's favour.

Grenades: raise S? the fact they double as clubs is already makes them better value than necromunda grenades. Or lower the cost?

Another thought: Yoofs got an additional T upgrade when they graduated to Boyz. I suggest the T upgrade replace the rolled advance (unless the yoof's T is already maxed out), and they get an advance at 16exp- a very minor change but IMO neater.

IIRC bikes running over orks on foot only inflict a S3 hit. The bike sustains a hit equal to the hit model's T, usually 4. i put it to you this is patently ridiculous.

Could maybe do with a bit more diversity in the Big Gunz armoury? Zzap gun perhaps? High S, but unreliable? A S4, 3 sus. fire shoota? Allow players to twin link big gunz?

*Massive weapons, S advances, S upgrades, the Chain choppa, explosive shells.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:25 am 
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Aaaaand another thing: there are no special level weapons. Which is a bit of a let down for Leaders and Spannerz. So I was thinking maybe they could purchase an upgrade for one of their weapons (NOT a weapon they're gunner of) at the start of the campaign.

Vehicles:
Capacity- I was thinking vehicles can have 2 orks (even a bike can take a passenger), 5 orks or gang carrying capacity.
Motive type- bike (faster), trak (slightly slower, better on rough terrain) or buggy.
Armour- Standard (no bonus), armoured (+1 all locations), heavy armoured (+2)
Costs- Bikes/single seater (10 teef), 5 seater (15 teef), gang capacity (20 teef), Armoured (+3 teef), Heavy armoured (+6 teef)- all costs determined by capacity and armour, NOT motive type. this would make mobs with more 2+ vehicles viable, and the busload of choppa-boyz less tempting. These are just thoughts atm.

Skills
I haven't devoted much thought to this yet, its a massive area. The original GM skill lists are not fit for purpose. 6 tables, one of which is driving, a skill list only useful for drivers. Best thing IMO is to combine the skill list from GM, Underhive and AW, into 7 tables. With an additional Beast riders table available only to Feral Orks.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:29 am 
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I'm not sure about bikes being able to carry two fighters. I do like the idea of a biker being able to zoom in and pick people up, but I wouldn't want a bike to just be a two-man transport. Maybe there should be separate entries for a one-man and two-man vehicle (because I want to be able to make a tiny buggy with barely enough space for the driver and his buddy). One easy way to stop the choppa swarm, though, would be to eliminate the 'full gang capacity' option. I'd have the highest capacity be eight or so, but maybe take down the prices a touch to make sure the cost of vehicles didn't strangle the rest of the gang. I'm not really sure about cost balancing though, that's just a thought.

As for special weapons, I'd forgotten about that. It didn't really bother me for the spanners (I always saw the vehicles as a pretty good answer to heavy weapons), but it would be good to let the Nob have access to some special stuff.

I wouldn't know where to start with skills. I can't remember anything about them, but IIRC the skill lists did seem pointlessly wide for a game with two houses (the lists left plenty of space to design more gangs, but the gangs just weren't there because of the fluff, and I think that's one of the biggest flaws in GM). That wasn't really the fault of the lists though, and I wouldn't want them to become disappointingly narrow.


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