Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

GorkaMorka Redux

 Post subject: GorkaMorka Redux
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:40 am 
Offline
Master of Arms
Master of Arms
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:44 am
Posts: 2423
I know i've suggested this before, but now AG and company have done most of the work with the new Ash Wastes document, and a viable GM supplement would be much easier. So anyone interested? AG, i know you stick your head in, would SG be interested in releasing this as an experimental document (especially with the release of so much new Ork stuff)?

Anyway, here's my summary of what could need changing to tie in with AW/ work better than the original:
Vehicles: Movement- stick with original (boosts) system or use the newer AW system? The latter would be an easier tie-in.
Vehicle design- there were 3 types of vehicles in GM: bikes, traks and trukks. all vehicles of each type worked the same regardless of the size etc of the model. I suggest a more limited version of the vehicle design chart from AW to introduce more diversity and realism.

Gunz- the pistolz and gunz need higher S to make using them a viable tactic (remember, Orks are immune to Pinning). Obviously not including the x-bow and bow.
Stikkbomb launcher- new Big gun

Mob Recruitment: Starting Teef- I would strongly urge a starting sum of 130 teef, of which 30 must be spent on vehicles or it is lost.
Eavy Boys- I would recommend the creation of a 'Eavy Boy who could carry Big Gunz in the same way as a necromundan Heavy can carry specialist/heavy weapons. I would limit the number of Big Gunz to the number of Spanners in a mob.
Hired Gunz- I would reccomend the inclusion of Freebooters (equiv. to Scum), Hunters (Ratskins), Cyborkz (Pitslaves) and Weirdboyz (Wyrds).

Post Battle- Skills- In original GM the 2 "houses" had a choice of 6 skill tables, 1 less than House gangs in Necro: Underhive, 5 less than gangs in the wastes. I reccomend taking elements from both GM and Necro: AW to make say 8 skill tables. This would allow you to create different "houses" with different specialities, whilst avoiding the problems caused by using necromunda skills in GM (eg Fast shot/ Rapid fire with sus. fire shootas).
Vehicle Maintenance- I would ignore this in GM because 1) each vehicle has a designated engineer anyway and 2) the sums of money involved are a tenth of those in Necromunda.
Mek's Workshop- This was one of the coolest parts of GM easily. The 2 problems i see are certain necromunda skills combined with More Dakka aka Sus. Fire (see above) and Faster if we change the vehicle movement in line with AW rules.
Gubbins and Rare Trade- I would include a Mordheim based Rare Trade system for a few items (eg Fungus Paste for healing SI, Pet Squigs, Chain-Choppas), and I would also make Gubbins (equivalent to the AW vehicle Equipment) Rare. RT would be a minor aspect of PB compared to going to the Mek's.

Thats all i can think of atm. Any thoughts?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 5:46 pm 
Offline
Cadet
Cadet

Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 10:33 am
Posts: 29
How did the campaign go?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 5:57 pm 
Offline
Sergeant
Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:12 pm
Posts: 617
Location: Chicago
Interesting. This is the one Specialist Game I never tried.

_________________
I see the circus through the eyes of a clown.

http://z3.invisionfree.com/wfbfgu/index.php?act=idx


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 2:17 am 
Offline
Sergeant
Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:21 am
Posts: 813
Location: Essex
Oh man, Gorkamorka. I'd love to see this game in action again, fixed up all nice and such. I'm not sure about the need for 'eavy boyz; I thought the vehicle-mounted weapons worked fine. Perhaps some other kind of extra member type might be good though. Skarboyz? With higher S and maybe the ability to use some kind of special (although not heavy) weapons? Or armour? Or maybe they have some other kind of special ability, like regenerating SIs in some way. Just throwing ideas out there; I think skarboyz would be a neat addition.

I think some extra gangs might be appropriate. Two 'house gangs' is not really enough, and three 'outlander' gangs is nice, but two of them are a little too off-centre for me (although I did love my muties). More gang types could be made like the Diggas, fairly close to the standard set by the Ork gangs but different enough to have a unique playstyle. It could work like Necromunda, but have the variation of Blood Bowl (in fact, if Gorkas had skarboyz and Morkas had some other special type like kommandos, this kind of variety would really be ingrained into the game). Of course, that kind of expansion is a bigger thing than we're talking about here, but if we got the rules set up it could be the kind of thing to do as a further project.

So, yeah. I'd be happy to help, although I'm not really sure how one goes about such a thing. I'd probably not be able to get my group to playtest (and one small problem is that I lost my rulebook years ago and only have Da Uvver Book and Digganob), so I guess my help would be limited to what I do in Necromunda: Hanging around the forums and talking about the rules. I'd love for this idea to get off the ground, though. I'd be sure to contribute as best I can.

So, is it possible to have SG provide the original rulebook somewhere? With a handy starting point like that, we could make it a project in the Necromunda forum (so people might see it instead of rotting in the usually-dead 'other games' forum) rather like NiS. As it is, I'm not sure that enough people will have access to the rules we're trying to work with. We could take the AW rules and build from the ground up, but having unique things like the mek's workshop available to everyone would make it a lot more accessible.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 5:52 am 
Offline
Cadet
Cadet

Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 10:33 am
Posts: 29
You are in luck both the Rule Book and Uvver Rule book are available at

www.specialist-games.com. The Digga book sadly will not become available.

http://www.specialist-games.com/results.asp?desc=gorka


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 4:58 pm 
Offline
Sergeant
Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:21 am
Posts: 813
Location: Essex
YES thanks. The digga rules are less imporant anyway. I'd just assumed SG had stopped supporting Gorkamorka altogether, what with the lack of everything for it.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 6:26 pm 
Offline
Master of Arms
Master of Arms
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:44 am
Posts: 2423
The campaign didn't "go," the complete lack of feedback (till now) meant this idea got shifted to the back burner in my mind.

The (well overdue) release of the GM rules on SG is very welcome, I now have a fall-back when my tatty original books fall apart :D

'Eavy boyz aren't needed (in fact, they're just not as good as a boy-manned, vehicle-mounted Big Gun), it was just to give more flexibility. ie one could -if one were so disposed- have more Big Gunz than Trukkz or Trakz, which you can't currently.
Simply put, there needs to be more choice in creating a mob. hence, more "houses," more vehicle variety, more options while putting your mob together. And of course, more viable tactics than the all powerful choppa swarm :-(

Any help would be grand, and this is more of an AW mod, than a GM project (if that makes sense). So theoretical Necromunda knowledge and discussion is just what's wanted 8)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:28 pm 
Offline
Sergeant
Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:21 am
Posts: 813
Location: Essex
Well I was thinking about the lack of diversity and I thought it might be an idea to ditch the 'Gorkas vs. Morkas' thing and use the Ork clans instead. I'm not sure that all of them would work especially (Snakebites are a particular problem; their lack of vehicles would mean they'd most likely end up fairly similar to Muties), but I thought it might be interesting to add in more random events and such during the post-battle sequence. The random happenings from Mordheim were a lot of fun, and Gorkamorka could very well be made into something less straight-laced than Necromunda, with more random aspects to make campaigns memorable.

The way the clans work into this is that I thought of it as a way of keeping certain clans in the game without having to make a series of lists whose only difference would be a single special ganger type. So as a random after-battle event, a gang might find themselves with the opportunity of hiring a Deathskull loota or somesuch. It's like the hired guns system, but instead allowing gangs the opportunity to permanently hire a special member of some sort. I thought it was a good idea because I findly remember the Mordheim campaign in which, through a stroke of luck from the random happenings table, my warband came into possession of a steel whip and Sigmarite hammer (pretty special weapons which are otherwise impossible to obtain for any warband except Sisters of Sigmar).

So... uhh... yeah. There might be a few clans represented as gangs, with fairly similar lists but different specialties. Goffs would have skarboyz (or Goff rokkaz!), Bad Moons might have 'Eavy Boyz, maybe Evil Sunz would have some kind of crazy driver, I don't know. But then beyond that, more specialised members might randomly become available, like Kommandos or Lootaz. It's fun to have an unpredictable event land some kind of special opportunity in your lap, and more fun if it's more than just a one-off, one-use thing.

Anyway, the clans are one easy way to bring in more 'houses', and the specialist members are kind of neat in my book. Of course, the clans aren't really represented in Gorkamorka so the background would need a bit of a tweak to fit them in. If that's not okay (and I'm in two minds about it myself), it's not really necessary that they be the usual clans, just that there's some kind of division. Lootaz, of course, fit in perfectly whether clans are involved or not.

As for which clans might make good houses, I think Goffs (with skarboyz and perhaps some other special type- not really sure what else they might have), Bad Moons (with flash gitz/'eavy boyz and maybe some kind of speciality with slavers and grotz), Evil Sunz (with driving specialists, more numerous or more effective spanners, perhaps a mekboy intead of a nob) and perhaps Snakebites (they could have boarboyz and some kind of boar-drawn chariot thing instead of a powered vehicle. And maybe weirdboyz, but they might have enough specialisation without them). Blood Axes and Deathskullz only really have the one distinguishing troop type to their names, so they'd fit in okay as the loners, either hired guns or random-chance hires.

Wow, that was pretty long.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 3:31 am 
Offline
Sergeant
Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:21 am
Posts: 813
Location: Essex
Okay, I looked over the Ash Waste vehicle rules and I think it would be best to use them rather than the GM rules (with bits cut out of the vehicle creation section, of course- skimmers and walkers don't really fit well in the setting). The AW rules replace pretty much everything in the GM rulebook. As for gang creation and campaign rules, that's a different story. I don't remember how income works in Gorkamorka, but I imagine it'll take some sorting out. One thing, though, is I think money should be fixed to match the numbers in Necromunda (ie. 1000t starting cost, regular boyz costing 50t). I always thought it was fairly arbitrary that the usual costs were so low, and it was too much of a limit to pricing items. Also, it means we can just use the vehicle creation rules from AW rather than having to fix them with minor alterations to the prices.

I would, though, modify the Necromunda rules a little. I'd replace the rare trade and close combat systems with the Mordheim ones (the Mordheim combat system allows for more variation between weapons and less one-sided combats).


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 11:05 am 
Offline
Master of Arms
Master of Arms
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:44 am
Posts: 2423
I agree and disagree with what you say. Firstly, i dislike the idea of house specific ganger types, even as a rare event, not least from a modelling PoV. i prefer the idea of houses being distinguished by skills, and the tactics they dictate. As in Necromunda. (though, i have come up with some Hired Orks, that could easily be exapnded)
which brings me on to my second point of contention. To me, having the Ork Clans in GM would be like Cadians and Mordians in Necromunda. That doean't mean we can't rip off the style of the clans for the "houses" (ie the Goff style "house" get ferocity and combat etc.). we just give them totally different names. thats more of a fluff issue really.
Even though I'd be basing this on the AW, I don't think a simplification of the prices would hurt (ie 100 teef=1000 creds). Thats one of the things I'd leave as is, where summat costs 5 creds we can round it up to 1 toof no probs.
income, if you recall- all boyz (ganger level Orks) who survive generate D6 credits.* Again. I don't think this needs changing.
Rare Trade= yeah, mordheim style system, but with fewer items on offer, healing fungus, chain choppas, vehicle gubbinz etc.
Close Combat= GM doesn't need a better CC system than necromunda (though it already has one as parries are fairly scarce), it needs shooting to be less crap than it is. for those of you who have played necromunda, but not GM; imagine that almost all weapons are S2, they don't cause pinning, and they almost all have shockingly low ranges. Then imagine that most of the targets are riding round in vehicles your poxy S2 weapons can't harm 99% of the time. And you don't need variation where there are only what? 4 kinds of CC weapon (sluggas, six shootas, choppas and massive choppas)

*this is one of the reasons that single vehicle, boy+choppa heavy gangs are sucessful


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 11:36 pm 
Offline
Sergeant
Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:21 am
Posts: 813
Location: Essex
Well the one-off troop types wouldn't be house-specific. Any house could hire them if they got the opportunity (probably with limits, such as muties can't hire anyone). The house-specific troop types would be available in the normal way. For the modelling side of it, it's true that it might be a pain. My fellow with the Sigmarite whip and hammer is a model I can't use again now unless I take bits off him. Anyway, the random happenings idea is just a needless addition, more of an experimental-rules type thing than something central to the setting.

The pricing system change is just to ease the transition from AW to GM. Since we'd be writing out the weapon and gang lists for GM anyway, the prices there would be easy to alter. It's a bit nicer to say 'the AW vehicle rules remain the same' than 'The AW vehicle rules remain the same, except all costs are divided by 10 rounding up'. Plus, if we want to have greater variety between weapons, 1000c is a much more versatile pricing system. Plus, the gang rating in GM is calculated by adding up cost plus experience/10. It's a pretty ugly implementation of the Necromunda GR, and it would be cleaner just have the calculation the same rather than requiring all this division by ten to bring things in line.

The combat change is guilty of the same problem I had with the pricing system- it makes us write out rules to replace the usual ones rather than just adding to them. I included it because it's a much better system and my ideal version of Necromunda would use it. Also, if combat gangs are an issue, the Mordheim system makes combat take a lot longer to resolve than the Necromunda charge-in, one-turn victory method (although maybe in Necromunda that is better, given the difficulty combat gangs have anyway- either way, in a game less focused on shooting, the Mordheim combat system is better). That, and the Necromunda system is rather anticlimactic. Not much happens in a Necromunda combat. The combat system could easily stay the same, but the Mordheim system would go a long way to making it a better game.

If all-boyz gangs are still too powerful with tweaking to shooting and combat, it might be worth taking a look at the income rules to try and put a roof on the amount of money such a gang can make. Maybe the wash table could be fixed up all nice. Or if we changed to a 1000c system we could just use the wash table for Necromunda, if it would work with the different income. The Necromunda table is pretty hard on large gangs, but that may only work out because of the limited amount of territories. If every ganger produced D6x10c after each game, the wash table might not cut it.

The two central issues we seem to be disagreeing on are the cost and combat system. The combat system would work okay either way, and admittedly it would be easier to keep the Necromunda one. The cost I really think would be better with the change. It cuts a fair bit of needless maths out of the transition, and there's not much to lose from it (well, except the fluff issue of how an Ork can produce so many teeth, which I don't really have an answer for but am willing to sacrifice to the gods of game design).

Either way, I think this thread could use the attention of the Necromunda forum rather than just us two. Wait there, I'll be right back.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:19 am 
Offline
Master of Arms
Master of Arms
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:44 am
Posts: 2423
Hmmm, well, make the more unusual HG (boarboyz! Ogryns!) rare. that way, they stay more unusual without suffering Brakaar syndrome*. And it can be incorporated into an existing structure.

As for cost, how about we split the difference and use .5s? That keeps costs right, and it makes more sense to have half a toof (probably split with a mallet or the butt of a shoota) instead of Ork Bosses starting with 1300 teef :-) So there's no maths to speak of, you've just moved the decimal point one step to the left.
this means we'd tweak the necro wash table rather than use the GM one.

With regards to combat; thats a broader issue about necromunda. I reckon its better to keep GM+AW+UH all the same. We can worry about a better HtH system elsewhere.

there are a few other things that want fixing IMO (eg bikes ramming footers) but this'd fix a lot. an AW style "vehicle grant" means that mobs could have 2+ vehicles and enough Orks to keep them from bottling straight away. More S4 weapons would end the supremacy of choppa hordes. And chucking in more houses, HG, RT and other necro stuff would make the game more interesting all round.

*Brakaar syndrome= a very specific, usually expensive, model that almost never gets used.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:23 am 
Offline
Sergeant
Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:10 am
Posts: 947
Location: Utah, USA
For differentiating the Ork tribes, this is what I came up with for my skirmish game. (For the badmoons, one toof is worth one necromunda credit):

Goffs—Skarboyz +1 to S (and max S) and Muscle Skills
Blood Axes—Access to Stealth Skills
Badmoons—gain extra d6 teef per badmoon per battle
Deathskulls—May purchase a Kustom Blasta, access to Shooting skills
Evil Sunz—Access to Techno skills
Snake Bites—May ride a warboar or Cyboar. May purchase Blindsnake pouches as a rare item.

Now keep in mind, I put these together to add diversity in a single mob of orks, rather than creating warbands of different tribes, but it could give you some ideas of possible differences.

_________________
Commander Adoni-Zedek
Panthers Chapter Imperial Space Marines
Warpstrike: 40k Skirmish Campaign rules (Necromunda for 40k)-Updated 2016-06-21


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 3:38 am 
Offline
Sergeant
Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:21 am
Posts: 813
Location: Essex
Aha, I feared this idea had suddenly died. I guess nobody on the Necromunda forum was interested.

I like the .5 teef idea; I think that may be the best way to deal with the money issue.

For combat, you're right. It would be better, but it's not needed and we might as well leave it out for the sake of a simple transition from one game to the next.

Oh, and do AW have a limit on vehicle capacity, or does it work like GM with a vehicle able to transport as many passengers as it can carry? I didn't see anything on it when I was looking through the rules, but I prefer the idea of a discrete carrying capacity, especially when we're not using the little annoying GM bases. On the GM trukk model, only about two round bases can actually fit. On the trak model, not even one fits. I'd place a limit depending on vehicle size and not worry about actually placing the models on the vehicle so much.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:38 am 
Offline
Master of Arms
Master of Arms
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:44 am
Posts: 2423
yes, AW vehicles used to have a limit on transportation (1, 5 and 10 IIRC), one of the reasons it seemed better to use the AW vehicle creation system. This has been changed to single seater or transport (as many as you can reasonably get on), but we can use something closer to the original table. Even with those pain-in-the-arse GM bases its difficult getting models onto vehicle, and Orks have got bigger since '97.
And of course, its better balance if a 2 ork buggy costs less than a trukk that'll hold a whole Mob.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

cron

Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group