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Vehicles, just terrain

 Post subject: Vehicles, just terrain
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:47 pm 
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Unctuous Toady
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Would you play a 28mm skirmish game that didn't include vehicles in combat? That is vehicles would appear as part of the scenery on the board, but they wouldn't be usable in the game.

Now don't quote me, but I think Inquisitor sort of works this way. I've seen models of vehicles made for inquisitor scale models, but I don't think the game has rules for them. And that is totally cool by me.

But I'm wondering what the prevailing opinion is.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:40 pm 
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A skirmish game no problem. I enjoy the patrol type games in a deserted and ruined town or village. Or maybe a search and destroy mission thru the countryside.
Any game larger than skirmish, then I would prefer a minimum of vehicles. Perhaps one transport and one fire support.
I think 40k is way too vehicle heavy as it currently stands anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Vehicles, just terrain
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:01 pm 
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Truckler wrote:
Would you play a 28mm skirmish game that didn't include vehicles in combat? That is vehicles would appear as part of the scenery on the board, but they wouldn't be usable in the game.


You mean, like necromunda?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:13 am 
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Unctuous Toady
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Well, the Necromunda rules do include vehicles. Their just isn't any room for them in the hive itself. What if you had a system where vehicles simply weren't used? You played battles in the ash wastes but vehicles didn't move.

How important are vehicles in games? How important should they be? Now obviuosly if you a playing at a scale like Epic 40K then you must have them. So clearly this discussion revolves around skirmish scale games or there abouts.


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Venator wrote:
The game designers themselves know these values are not realistic and they do not intend them to replace or invalidate the fluff. So let's get on with our lives and not fixate over the cosmic ramifications of game mechanics which we already know are streamlined for larger forces at the expense of detail.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:34 pm 
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The origional necro rules did not include vehicle rules. I have never played with vehicle rules in necro.

If the vehicles don't move, then they're not vehicles. They're terrain. Or possibly a bunker. Vehicles that do not move have no reason for existing. Your question is pointless.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:15 pm 
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AnimusAtrum wrote:
Vehicles that do not move have no reason for existing. Your question is pointless.


It seems like you just don't understand the question.

The concept here seems to be similar to the perfect scale question. I think its a good one. If you have a really small scale like Inquisitor then do you need vehicles? Isn't it enough to assume that they are terrain and not clutter your rules with them? They change the scope of the game.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:01 pm 
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I do understand. Perhaps I should be more plain for you. My answer is: Vehicles are not a necessary part of a skirmish game. Better?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:51 am 
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Truckler, it is hard to answer your question without first knowing exactly what you mean by "vehicles" Could you define the term for us a bit?

For example, are vehicles; tanks, 6 wheeled vehicles, 2 wheeled vehicles, hover baords, walkers, giant robots, slightly larger then mansized robots?

In some cases they have no use (except for special scenarios) but in others it seems like they would have no problem being used on a regular basis.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:25 pm 
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I like the no-vehicle state of Necro. They are not usable in the Underhive, and wouldn't even be there as part of terrain. For other skirmish games, like Gorkamorka, buggies and traks are essential. We even have wrecks as terrrain.

So the short answer is: It depends on the game.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:01 pm 
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feeder wrote:
So the short answer is: It depends on the game.


Okay, so suppose that you are creating a brand spanking new skirmish game. This game is meant to take up where Rogue Trader left off, to incorporate the best features of Necromunda, and do what Inquisitor tried but failed to do.

Do you need vehicle rules in such a game?


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The game designers themselves know these values are not realistic and they do not intend them to replace or invalidate the fluff. So let's get on with our lives and not fixate over the cosmic ramifications of game mechanics which we already know are streamlined for larger forces at the expense of detail.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:41 pm 
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I depends on whether you want the game to be limited by the fact that it doesn't have vehicle rules.
If you specifically don't want the game to have vehicles, because it has a very specific setting or intended focus, where vehicles don't exist, or make sense, or detract from the rest of the game, then fair enough, no vehicle rules.
But, if your skirmish game picks up where Rogue Trader left off and is supposed to have the detail and scope of Inquisitor, then you should at least have some vehicle rules. Even if it's just a basic guideline on how to handle vehicles when the do appear or are necessary, without including full options for building and using them in a tactical manner.

If you've got an open-ended skirmish game, where the idea is to empower the players to play whatever type pf scenatio they want, you would be short-changing your players/customers if you don't include vehicle rules.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:35 pm 
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=][= does have vehicle rules, they were released in the magazine and are available online. Never played the game but twice so i cant comment on how good they are.

link: http://www.specialist-games.com/inquisitor/articles.asp

As for the question, if vehicles could be included (they fit in background) not including them would be lazy.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:43 am 
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pathfinder dubstyles wrote:
As for the question, if vehicles could be included (they fit in background) not including them would be lazy.

I agree 100% with this.

Even if the only vehicles included are bikes and jeeps, unless there is a compelling reason why they aren't present on the battlefield they should be in the rules. If vehicles aren't on the battlefield (in the fluff), I'm afraid that you've limited your gameworld too much.


Aaron


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