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combined imperium

 Post subject: combined imperium
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:17 am 
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Right, another odd topic from me that's not so odd but will probably be explained in a terrible way XD

I dug out my old space marines from a while back (dirty 3+ armour save...>.>) and discovered that I have now got five hundred points or so of them and 420/500 (using necros as proxy penal legions) of IG.

So I was wondering what peoples opinions on combined forces at this points value are. In addition to this, do most GW's tend to be tolerant of such practices in store when it's not apoc'?

in addition to this, my marine chaper, thus far unnamed, has the backstory of pledging to serve under the orders of my guard regiment, what doctrines (you know... from OLD marine codex if people don't have them in the new one) do you think would represent this well?

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TERRAIN: crashed ship + 8 tiny ruins (armor cast stuffs coming soon, along with Cities of Death as well hopefully)
GOING TO COLLECT: Imperial Gaurd (Nivinm second legion 'Magarties Men')


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 6:45 pm 
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Rosa_Diavolo wrote:
So I was wondering what peoples opinions on combined forces at this points value are. In addition to this, do most GW's tend to be tolerant of such practices in store when it's not apoc'?
Fluff-wise, after the Horus Heresy the Imperium's military was restructured to avoid the possibility of future rebellions. In order to insure that no military commander could ever wage war against the Imperium:
- The Imperial Guard and Navy have totally separate chains of command up to at least the sub-sector level and can never give each other orders. This limits rebel armies to a single planet and prevents a rogue fleet from taking and holding worlds.
- Space Marine chapters, which are allowed to have combined ground and naval forces, are outside both chains of command and strictly limited to not more than 1000 fighting men.

In terms of how mixed forces are handled in the game, it is frowned on in most gaming venues and prohibited in tournaments. Each army list is intended to have strengths and weaknesses, and if you could pick and choose units from multiple army lists, you could circumvent much of that game balance. "Hmmm, what my Imperial Guard gun line really needs is a Space Marine Assault Squad to protect it from melee attackers!"

The only legal army lists that allow any sort of mixing and matching are the Inquisitorial lists: Witch Hunters and Daemonhunters. A lot of players feel that these rules are abused, especially as the codices have gotten old and the Imperial Guard codex is somewhat out of sync with them now. For example, the Storm Troopers in the Guard codex are radically different than the ones in the Inquisitorial codices.

Rosa_Diavolo wrote:
in addition to this, my marine chaper, thus far unnamed, has the backstory of pledging to serve under the orders of my guard regiment, what doctrines (you know... from OLD marine codex if people don't have them in the new one) do you think would represent this well?
As-in the Chapter Traits system? I hated that system for how easily and often it was abused, giving DIY armies free bonuses and no meaningful penalties. Er, what was the question again?


Of course you can do whatever your opponent agrees to in a friendly game, but if you want to try to combine Guard and Marines in the same army list and have it be as acceptable as possible to mainstream 40K gamers and/or GW stores... I'd suggest using the Daemonhunters rules and having the Marines "count as" Grey Knights. Alternately, you could locate the current rules for Deathwatch Kill Teams (members of the Ordo Xenos) and use that to attach Space Marines to your Imperial Guard.

Fluff-wise, I cannot think of any scenario in which a Space Marine chapter would be placed under Imperial Guard command. Some Space Marine chapters do think outside the box and do things strangely different than the normal Codex fashion. It's possible one of these oddball chapters might allow their serfs (non-Space Marine staff and servants) to fight on the battlefield and count as Imperial Guard. Perhaps a chapter that was dying out due to geneseed failure and unable to field 1000 real Marines might turn to using ordinary human troops in some roles. Marine candidates that wash out of training would be too valuable to turn into servitors and would be allowed to join these units. Just a thought.

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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 10:15 pm 
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The fluff wise exception is that the marine chapter was impressed with the IG's sheer determination that they pledged to help end the campaign.

And yeah... I was just wondeirng how casual games at GW went with regards to that XD I know *why* it's not allowed, I was just wondering how bad it would go. Also, does anyone have a scribD link to the inquisitor codex?

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OWNS: N: Delaque, Van saar, Orlock
TERRAIN: crashed ship + 8 tiny ruins (armor cast stuffs coming soon, along with Cities of Death as well hopefully)
GOING TO COLLECT: Imperial Gaurd (Nivinm second legion 'Magarties Men')


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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:20 pm 
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Unfortunately I think the answers is "no" for both your questions.

Small gaming groups aside, I don't think I've ever seen a store where you were allowed to mix and match codexes. Now, obviously anything you and your opponent agree to is just fine, but realize that most people will not allow it. Or at least, that's what my experiance leads me to believe.

Fluff-wise, a Space Marine chapter would never serve an IG force. For one, Space Marines generally believe themselves superior to normal humans (and they are). Secondly, they have vastly different fighting styles. IG are human wave and tank division fighters, and SM are more commando styled. Finally, (the most important point) the Inquisition would have a fit. Any force that tried it would be excommunicated at the least, if not destroyed.

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