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Pheonix Lords...WTF?!?

 Post subject: Pheonix Lords...WTF?!?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:41 pm 
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We are starting another 40k gaming group and one of the new players has chosen Eldar as his army of choice. And of course he is new to the game and I play Tau or Orks, so I don't know much about Eldar.

So here is my question, are the Phoenix Lords HQ choices? And if so, most games only allow you 2 maximum HQ choices and that would only leave you with one Phoenix Lord and an Eldar leader guy (I believe that is the technical term for the Eldar General)

If it isn't an HQ choice, how do Phoenix Lords fit in with the Army Organizational Chart?

Thanks

McCragge

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:27 am 
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they are hq


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:51 am 
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So they can be used as leaders for the army then?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:39 am 
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they are hq choice in eldar codex, yes you can use them as you can use abbadon and vulkan why it is so hard to realise that?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:17 am 
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It's impossible to realise it when you don't have a copy of the book. And less than obvious to a beginner whose perhaps nervous about the game.

McCragge - The Phoenix Lords, as per the layout of the new style (Dark Angels onwards) Codices, are listed in the HQ section rather than being seperate as per the Tau Codex.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:25 am 
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Devastator wrote:
they are hq choice in eldar codex, yes you can use them as you can use abbadon and vulkan why it is so hard to realise that?


It is hard to realize that as they can be attached to an Aspect Warriors squad...which seemed odd if they are the leaders of the whole army.

And also what jlmb_123 said. Besides this is my forums, and I can ask as many (&#$@!) questions in as many ways as I want until I am satisfied with the answers! :yamoron

Thansk jlmb_123 for your courteous reply and explanation.

McCragge

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:30 pm 
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Also you can use GW's website as a rudimentary guide - they show each army and their HQ/Elites/Troops/Fast Attack/etc. options. They usually denote models which are special characters and require opponent's approval to use and which ones are just always allowed.

It's helped me when I needed to find something out fast and didn't have a codex handy.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:28 pm 
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Good point, but in some of the older Codices special characters were restricted and outside of the army list proper, whereas in newer ones they're listed amongst the bestiary alongside unnamed troops and in the army list in the same way as other characters, squads and vehicles.

It's also worth remembering that in the books from Codex: Dark Angels onwards, players are unrestricted in their choice of special characters, beyond 0-1 restrictions. They can be chosen without the consent of an opponent.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:39 am 
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lol i didnt notice that you were admin :cry:
you only asked if they were hq


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:58 pm 
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jlmb_123 wrote:
It's also worth remembering that in the books from Codex: Dark Angels onwards, players are unrestricted in their choice of special characters, beyond 0-1 restrictions. They can be chosen without the consent of an opponent.


So in a 2000 point Eldar force, could the Eldar player take one each of the Phoenix lords? Or are they still restricted to the FOC with two HQ choices?

It just seems confusing because Phoenix Lords are leaders of the Eldar armies. (Ugh...I am glad I play Tau LOL)

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:25 pm 
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Phoenix Lords fill HQ slots, so you can only have two of them in a single list.

They are independent characters and free to join and lead other squads in the army, much like an Ethereal. But, if they just happen to join a squad that matches their warrior aspect, they grant that squad special powers. There's really no reason to give up these amazing abilities (by failing to have a suitable squad for them to join) and so Phoenix Lords are pretty-much always deployed leading a squad... acting like very expensive and dangerous veteran sergeants.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:07 pm 
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Venator wrote:
They are independent characters and free to join and lead other squads in the army...


Page 54, Special Rule "Disciples"
" Phoenix Lords Can not join Aspect Warriors squads that are not their Aspect"

Unless you really want a fluffy feel to your eldar, i wouldnt bother with them. All of them are overpriced and dont add anything to the army other then the aspect unit they are attached to. Where as a Farseer or Autuarch can add lots of roles to any eldar build, and a Avatar is great for foot slogging guardian heavy armies.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:31 pm 
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I've never seen a Phoenix Lord join any sort of squad besides their own aspect, but they are not forced to do so. They could join Guardians, Rangers or other non-aspected squads if desired.

McCragge isn't building an Eldar list, he's trying to kill them. Hand-to-hand oriented aspect warriors can really ruin your day. If they're made fearless by the presence of a Phoenix Lord, it can require a whole lot of shooting to make them go away.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:55 pm 
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Sorry if I misunderstood the question, but it didnt see anywhere in question that he was trying to kill one. Just that he was asking about them.

As far as I know they can either join their own Aspect unit or be an IC unit. Granted in the rules of the codex they are given, they arent restricted to such limits. However it would be highly un-fluffy. Though Ive been wrong before and havent read anything showing them leading a unit of Guadians for example.

In the 3rd edition rule book I cant remember if there was a points restriction but in the current one there is no such restriction to points.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:30 am 
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Well technically I am trying to kill them. But my friends plays the Eldar army but he is new to the game. While I have been playing 40k since the Rogue Trader days, I have never once played Eldar. So him and I were both curious how the Pheonix Lords worked.

Thanks for all the info guys, now I think he can get a good Eldar list together that is legal :)

McCragge

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