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Do the rules suck?
Yes 11%  11%  [ 2 ]
No 79%  79%  [ 15 ]
I would rather disembowel myself than have rules on the EFF. 11%  11%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 19

Get rid of the rules...

 Post subject: Get rid of the rules...
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:59 pm 
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The rules suck. I loved having a forum that anyone could go to and do whatever they wanted. I thought EFF was different. I guess I was wrong.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:32 pm 
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Wow, no free speech on a privately owned forum. That’s just totally unconscionable. What hypocrisy.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:50 pm 
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>To on one hand decry limiting freedoms and on the other to errect barriars and limits to them in ones personel domain is hypocritical without question.

So. The bush administration is hypocritical because they decry limiting freedoms in Arab nations one hand and on the other errect barriars and limits to freedoms in the US via methods such as the patriot act and DMCA?

Or is TTuren hypocritical to on one hand decry limiting freedoms on the EFF and on the other support errecting barriars and limits to freedoms via methods such as the patriot act and DMCA??

Or is TTuren hypocritical to on one hand criticize the EFF who supports errecting barriars and limits to freedoms and on the other support the Bush Administration who errects barriars and limits to freedoms via the patriot act and DMCA??

In any case...

TTuren is a hypocritical (&#$@!). No. This is not libel. This is a well documentated fact.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:54 pm 
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Personally, I don't think I can recall ever hearing Truckler or McCragge speak out against limiting 'freedoms' on privately owned internet forums. I cannot see how doing so is hypocritical of them.
Maybe they could set up a 'designated free speech zone' for whingers to speak their mind in, completely separate and hidden from the main forum. That sounds pretty 'democracy' and 'freedom' and all kinds of other dumb buzz-words that have lost their meaning, eh citizens? ;)

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Warhammer 40,000 5th edition
The least worst rules for 40K.

The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity.
With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog, behind which halftruths and untruths can frolic and procreate unmolested.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:24 pm 
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<sarcasm> Your right rules are so bad! I mean I will lose my right of free speech to slag people off and call them really rude names! I will not be able to act like a complete moron and derail topics with idiotic comments and endless back and forth, round about posts that all boil down to mediocrity! </sarcasm>

I think its time to take an honest look at why you don’t want rules. Do not dare use this magic “free speech” as a shield! Free speech requires a level of maturity and self control that people have to maintain. I doubt any who have claimed to be fighting for free speech here are capable of governing themselves.

Free speech is not personally attacking others.

Free speech is not forcing your point of view on others by beating them down with a torrent of rubbish posts.

The kind of Forum I want to post in is one where I know that the respect I show other members will be returned.

All the rules outlined are designed to uphold RESPECT.

RESPECT is something I think some people need a lesson in.

RESPECTING others is the first step in creating an environment in which ideas are shared and points of view heard.

Rules are needed to show some people what RESPECT is.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:32 pm 
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Ooh, double-post postwhore.

I was unaware that the 'patriot act' was a simple set of guidelines designed to encourage civil discussion. If that's the case, I don't see what all the fuss was about. I say we need more 'patriot acts'.

I cannot recall Tturen ever previously pointing out that he believes individuals should be held to standards they profess to support. That almost sounds like leading by example. And I'm pretty sure Tturen doesn't believe in leading by example. I can recall Tturen pulling out endless streams of 'everyone else does it too' when defending the shady dealings of his country's leaders.

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Warhammer 40,000 5th edition
The least worst rules for 40K.

The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity.
With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog, behind which halftruths and untruths can frolic and procreate unmolested.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:17 am 
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Well, let me just say, if you want a forum where there is no moderation, anything goes. You can write anything you want with little to no consequence. Perhaps you should go back to the Heart of the Heresy.

That forum is back up (and has been for sometime) As those who used to go there know, there is no limits on anything. A virtual wild west.

But while I may still own HotH I no longer support it. I don't upgrade it, fix it moderate it nothing. So it should be fun for all those people who think we are removing your rights!

But the rest of us who are responsible, and respectful to others and can debate topics and interests without having the thread degenerate into constant bickering and flame wars. For those of you who don't want or need to be bashed and put down at every turn. And for all the members who can discuss things without making it personal. You have a home here at the Eastern Fringe. And it is you people who will never even know the rules exist.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:12 am 
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I for one see no problem with the rules.

All they are really trying to prevent is the standard annoyances of thread-derailing, flame wars and pointless (often juvenile) personal attacks.

So often, I have started getting interested in a RT/2nd Ed thread, only to have it degenerate into a series of returning arguments that boil down to nothing. Often dipping even deeper into the murky depths of insult-slinging.

I got sick to death of it back in HotH. And now that it's starting to occur here, I for one would like it stamped out.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:23 am 
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Is Tturen making a veiled accusation of hypocrisy?

Ever the apologist. As far as I can tell, Tturen doesn't believe his leaders should lead by example.
Actually, I should probably clarify that I think leading by setting a [i]good]/i] example is the way to do things. Maybe that's not the type of 'leading by example' Tturen is talking about.

Quote:
A nations primary objective is the security of its people all other concerns become secondary.


Hahahahahaha! Everyone have a good hard think about that statement.

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Warhammer 40,000 5th edition
The least worst rules for 40K.

The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity.
With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog, behind which halftruths and untruths can frolic and procreate unmolested.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:59 am 
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I think Robbie really has a point with the leadership by example idea. You can't have it both ways. Well said Robbie.

-------------

So um, besides just hating the rules outright or believing them to be some dire attack of "Truth", does anyone have any ideas on how they might be improved or clarified in anyway?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:13 pm 
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My only problem with the rules would be how "tightly" the "off-topic" rule will be administered... as I often see minor points in threads that (I feel) require my special brand of insight ;) I don't go around purposefully derailing threads... but sometimes I respond to the responses, not the original post 8-)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:49 am 
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If you are posting something and as you do so, think to yourself. Will this violate any of the rules? If the answer is no, then post it. But if you get a yes or a not entirely sure answer, then odds are you are violating the rules and should rethink your post.

Now, as far as derailing threads, it depends mostly on a case by case basis. It is ok to go on a tangent in your post as long as you bring it back around to the topic at hand.

And for an example, this thread is about the rules sucking or not. And while it has stayed on topic for the most part, there has been some attempts at derailing...now don't get me wrong I am not saying anyone purposely tried to turn the thread to another topic or not. In these cases, what is most likely to happen is the thread as a whole will get a warning to bring it back on topic. If it fails we will either lock the thread or delete all off topic posts. Of course this depends on the severity.

I don't see this rule being put to use to much unless people start trying to turn gaming threads into discussions best left in the Off Topic area.

McCragge

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:48 am 
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Hmm, I don't see how generating unprecedented levels of hatred towards your country, and dethroning the former heavyweight champion of the world in being the most hated person in the history of mankind, serves the interests of national security.
I remember something from a declaration on something-or-other, about the 'pursuit of happiness'. I think that's a pretty good first and foremost objective, everyone likes happiness. I don't recall anything about 'security at all costs'. Not everyone likes havink to show zer papers!

I have heard Tturen state time and time again, that he is happy to elect crooks to office, because every politician is a crook, or words to that effect.
To me, that says he does not believe in leading by example, or that he does not believe his leaders should lead by example, or that he does not believe he, or his leaders, should lead by setting a good example.

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Warhammer 40,000 5th edition
The least worst rules for 40K.

The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity.
With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog, behind which halftruths and untruths can frolic and procreate unmolested.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:55 pm 
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I plan on continuing to post how I normally do, and if someone decides it's out of line they can ban me. I can always post somewhere else.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:04 am 
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Master Sergeant
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'Without security how one create happiness?' Fuh?
What's that old quote? Something along the lines of 'those who would trade freedom for security deserve neither'? I like that quote.
In my experience, the best 'security' is self-sufficiency. If you need other people to 'secure' you, you are a maggot and the society you live in is a rotting corpse.

To me, "A nations primary objective is the security of its people all other concerns become secondary." and 'security at all costs' mean the same thing. The same thing being your loss of freedom.
Observant readers may even notice that when I originally said 'security at all costs', it was in commas. Those of you with an adult level of reading and comprehension should realise that placing something in commas, would imply paraphrasing. Especially when what is within the commas is not an actual quote of a previous statement. When you quote someone, you use "these".
If you personally think that the meaning of the statements "A nations primary objective is the security of its people all other concerns become secondary." and 'security at all costs' have completely different meanings, please stop by and let us know why. Because I don't.

After having read through endless pages of posts by Tturen, I must say, he is sickeningly fond of the word 'moral'.
Strange, considering how he seems to support leaders that do not believe in leading by example.

I was going to post a reply, listing all the instances of Tturen supporting people that do not lead by example, collected from the threads on the five pages of the off topic section. But I can see that there would be no point.

I have seen not one single instance of Tturen being the slightest bit accomodating towards a difference of political or personal opinion, regardless of the evidence he is presented with.
I can only conclude that Tturen does not care what knowledge, evidence or experience you have, he does not care about the truth, other than what he has already decided is the 'truth'. His mind is closed.
I can only recommend to other forum members, that if you disagree with something Tturen has said, do not bother talking to him because it is as pointless as trying to argue with an offensively graffitied brick wall.

I have, however, saved my compiled list of Tturen's hypocrisy. If you are interested, ask me about it in live chat some time.

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Warhammer 40,000 5th edition
The least worst rules for 40K.

The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity.
With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog, behind which halftruths and untruths can frolic and procreate unmolested.


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